Bose-Einstein Condensate Photons

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    Bose-einstein Photons
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of Bose-Einstein condensates (BEC) and the behavior of photons in such states, particularly in relation to the idea of "freezing" photons and their annihilation at low temperatures. Participants explore the implications of photon behavior in BECs, including the conditions under which photons can exist and reemerge.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what it means to "freeze" photons, considering whether it involves slowing their motion, changing energy levels, or altering the state of surrounding particles.
  • One participant explains that photons are not truly "frozen," and describes BECs as more akin to a quantum liquid or gas, emphasizing the role of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle in determining particle behavior at low temperatures.
  • It is noted that in classical systems, particles in the ground state would form a solid lattice, while quantum mechanics allows for overlapping particle positions due to uncertainty, leading to a liquid-like state.
  • Participants discuss the technical achievement of creating conditions under which photons can exhibit BEC behavior, including the introduction of effective mass and weak repulsive interactions among photons.
  • There is a question about whether photons that are annihilated when cooled would reemerge upon warming, with some participants affirming that new photons would appear, but they would be unrelated to the original photons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the nature of photon behavior in BECs, particularly regarding the implications of annihilation and reemergence of photons. There is no consensus on the specifics of these processes, and multiple interpretations are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the complexities of quantum mechanics and the specific conditions required for photons to behave as massive bosons, which may not be universally applicable. The discussion also highlights the limitations of classical analogies in describing quantum states.

sqljunkey
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https://www.livescience.com/10288-kind-light-created-physics-breakthrough.html

I was reading here that you can freeze photons.
What does it mean to freeze up a photon, are you slowing down it's motion, changing it's energy levels. Or are you changing the state of the particles around it and that then would cause it to change it's state?
 
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The photons aren't really "frozen," a work which usually is used to describe a solid state of matter (where particles form some regular lattice). A Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC) is more like a quantum liquid or gas depending on whether the BEC is approximately incompressible or not. And here I should say that when we call quantum phases "solid/liquid/gas" we are really making analogies with their classical definitions, and their quantum counterparts behave differently in general.

The reason why one gets a liquid-like state at low temperatures involves the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. At low temperature, the system will relax to its ground state, meaning a state of minimum kinetic energy and minimum interaction energy. Here we can model the system as have some short-range repulsive interaction between any pair of particles. In a classical system, one expects that all particles will simply have zero kinetic energy in their ground state, and one simply chooses the particle positions such that the interactions between them are minimized - this is usually some lattice, and the ground state is a solid.

In contrast, in quantum mechanics the Heisenberg uncertainty relation tells you that you cannot place the particles in definite positions without the particles having extremely large kinetic energy. If the repulsive interactions between particles is small enough, the system will prefer to have low kinetic energy and have the particle positions be uncertain across a large distance (the particles overlap, but the reduction in kinetic energy beats this interaction cost). Then the system looks like a liquid in that particle positions fluctuate so that on average the particle density is constant everywhere.

Everything I discussed above qualitatively describes massive bosons - usually for light BECs don't form because photons can just choose to annihilate themselves into the vacuum, so the low energy state is just a state with no photons. The technical achievement of these researchers was to engineer a system where photons have an effective mass and some weak repulsive interactions between them, so they could get BEC physics.
 
Okay thanks. Now in the scenario where all the photons get annihilated when cooled down does it also mean that when it is warmed back to the original temperature these photons would reemerge?
 
sqljunkey said:
Now in the scenario where all the photons get annihilated when cooled down does it also mean that when it is warmed back to the original temperature these photons would reemerge?

Yes, and this leads to the fact that every object at finite temperature emits radiation. This is how infrared imaging works for example.
 
sqljunkey said:
does it also mean that when it is warmed back to the original temperature these photons would reemerge?
You get photons again - but they are unrelated to the photons that were present before.
 

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