Boundedness of a Quadratic Form

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding bounds on the variables x and y in the quadratic form H_0 = x^2 + y^2 + 2axy, particularly in relation to the parameter a. Participants explore different cases based on the absolute value of a, specifically |a|<1, |a|>1, and |a|=1, and seek to understand the implications of these conditions on the boundedness of x and y.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in finding bounds for x and y based on a, despite the claim that it should be straightforward for the cases of |a|<1, |a|>1, and |a|=1.
  • Another participant suggests rewriting H_0 in the form \alpha(x+y)^2 + \beta(x-y)^2 to potentially aid in the analysis.
  • A participant notes that rewriting H_0 yields a specific expression involving (x+y)^2 and (x-y)^2, but they are uncertain about its usefulness in determining boundedness.
  • There is a clarification that H_0 is considered a fixed positive number, which is essential for the discussion of bounds.
  • One participant asserts that if |a|<1, the expression consists of a sum of two positive squares, implying that x and y must be bounded. Conversely, if |a|>1, they argue that one square can be made arbitrarily large while compensating with the other, suggesting unboundedness.
  • Participants inquire about the possibility of quantitatively bounding x and y directly in terms of H_0.
  • There is mention of gaining useful information about zeroes and positivity/negativity from the rewritten form, but no definitive conclusions about boundedness are reached.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the implications of the cases for |a|<1 and |a|>1 regarding the boundedness of x and y, but the discussion remains unresolved about how to quantitatively express these bounds in terms of H_0.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the mathematical steps necessary to establish bounds, and there are dependencies on the definitions and conditions of a and H_0 that remain unexamined.

thegreenlaser
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Given:
[tex]H_0 = x^2 + y^2 + 2axy[/tex]

How does one go about finding the bounds on x and y, based on a? The author of a book I'm reading says that bounds are simple to show based on the different conditions |a|<1, |a|>1, or |a|=1. Unfortunately, I'm not finding it so simple, except for the |a|=1 case. Could someone at least point me in the right direction?

Thanks
 
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thegreenlaser said:
Given:
[tex]H_0 = x^2 + y^2 + 2axy[/tex]

How does one go about finding the bounds on x and y, based on a? The author of a book I'm reading says that bounds are simple to show based on the different conditions |a|<1, |a|>1, or |a|=1. Unfortunately, I'm not finding it so simple, except for the |a|=1 case. Could someone at least point me in the right direction?

Thanks
Hmm. Does it help to write H0 as

[tex]\alpha(x+y)^2 + \beta(x-y)^2[/tex]

?
 
pmsrw3 said:
Hmm. Does it help to write H0 as

[tex]\alpha(x+y)^2 + \beta(x-y)^2[/tex]

?

I'm trying that now. It turns out to be:

[tex]\frac{1}{2}(1+a)(x+y)^2 + \frac{1}{2} (1-a)(x-y)^2[/tex]

I have yet to see if that helps me in any way.

Also, just in case it was a little ambiguous in my first post, the goal is to find out whether if H0 is bounded then x and y are bounded as well. If they are bounded, I need to know how they're bounded in terms of H0
 
In your OP, you said you were trying to find bounds on x and y. Does that mean that H0 is a fixed number (presumably >0)?
 
^Just edited that in my last post. Yes, sorry, that was a little unclear.
 
Ah! In that case, I think the answer is clear. If |a|<1, then you have a sum of two positive squares. Obviously those are both going to be bounded, and that will bound x and y. If |a|>1, you have a positive and a negative square, and you can make one as big as you like as long as you compensate by making the other big, too.
 
pmsrw3 said:
Ah! In that case, I think the answer is clear. If |a|<1, then you have a sum of two positive squares. Obviously those are both going to be bounded, and that will bound x and y. If |a|>1, you have a positive and a negative square, and you can make one as big as you like as long as you compensate by making the other big, too.

That does make sense. Thanks!

Now is there any way to do that quantitatively? i.e. Can we bound x and y directly in terms of H0?

EDIT:
Breaking it into it's [tex]H_0 =\frac{1}{2}(1+a)(x+y)^2 + \frac{1}{2} (1-a)(x-y)^2[/tex] form did give me a lot of useful information about where the zeroes are and where it's positive/negative, but I still haven't coaxed any boundedness info out of it.
 
Last edited:

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