MR. RUSSERT: Let’s talk a little bit about the language people are using in the politics now of 2006, and I refer you to some comments that Harry Belafonte made yesterday. He said that Homeland Security had become the new Gestapo. What do you think of that?
SEN. OBAMA: You know, I never use Nazi analogies, because I think those were unique, and I think, you know, we have to be careful in using historical analogies like this. I think people are rightly concerned that we strike the right balance between our concerns for civil liberties and the uniform concern that all of us have about protecting ourselves from terrorism.
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MR. RUSSERT: Is it appropriate to call the President of the United States the greatest terrorist in the world?
SEN. OBAMA: …That’s not language that I would use.
…What I do think we have to focus on is—in the context of the Middle East and Iraq, Iran—is the fact that we are at a very delicate time right now, which requires not just military might, but also diplomacy. And there’ve been times where we have not used all the tools in our tool kit. There’s been a tendency on this part of this administration to talk tough, to act first and plan later…
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MR. RUSSERT: Let me turn to the political situation here at home. Your colleague Senator Hillary Clinton said some things that have been talked about all week long. Let’s listen to that and come back and talk about it.
(Videotape, Monday)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D-NY): We have cronyism, we have incompetence. I predict to you that this administration will go down in history as one of the worst that has ever governed our country.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: Do you agree with Senator Clinton that the Bush administration will go down in history as one of the worst?
SEN. OBAMA: I agree with her remarks about cronyism and incompetence. I don’t think that anybody who’s been watching the news over the last year who’s seen what happened in New Orleans, who’s seen some of the botched planning that took place post-war in Iraq would not think that there is a competence issue when it comes to this administration. I think that with respect to cronyism, we have seen, I think, consistently, a tendency on the part of this administration to appoint people on the basis of their politics as opposed to their abilities and their merits, and that has real consequences for the American people…
MR. RUSSERT: Will George Bush be considered one of the worst presidents in history?
SEN. OBAMA: Well, you know, that’s a tough standard to meet. We’ve had some pretty bad ones. So, I, you know, I don’t prognosticate in terms of where George Bush will place in American history.
MR. RUSSERT: But in terms of the dialogue and the civility in Washington, is it appropriate to be talking in these terms?
SEN. OBAMA: Well, you know, here in Chicago we’ve got a saying that “politics ain’t beanbag.” And sometimes I think that we get overexcited, or we fasten on remarks that people are making in the heat of political battle. I agree that generally we need to improve the tone of civility in politics. I think that that starts, by the way, with the White House and some of those closest to George Bush. I’m always happy if we can tone down the rhetoric and focus on the problems that the American people care about.
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MR. RUSSERT: No sin for the Democrats?
SEN. OBAMA: Well, with respect to how Tom DeLay consolidated power in the House of Representatives, invited lobbyists like Abramoff into help write legislation, leveraging those lobbyists and telling them that they can only hire Republicans, manipulating the rules of the House and the Senate in order to move forward legislation that was helpful to special interests. There is a qualitative difference to what’s been happening in Washington over the last several years that has real consequences. It means a prescription drug bill that doesn’t work for our seniors. It means an energy policy that does nothing to help relieve high gas prices at the pump. These aren’t just abstractions, these are problems that have very real consequences to the American people. And my hope is is that, on a bipartisan basis, we can come up with a solution that returns some semblance of responsiveness to Washington.
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MR. RUSSERT: And we are back. Welcome all. James Carville, Paul Begala, “Take It Back,” the new blueprint, the Bible for Democrats. And here’s what it says: “George W. Bush and the Washington Republicans have presided over the most corrupt reign since Richard Nixon and his Watergate crooks were driven from Washington in disgrace.”
Mr. Carville, substantiate that.
MR. JAMES CARVILLE: Today, Friday, the Department of Defense high-ranking Bush appointee plead guilty 12 years. We got two people in the White House that are under indictment. We have a Republican congressman who’s convicted. I don’t know how many more indictments are coming. We have a prescription drug bill that was written by, for and of the pharmaceutical industry. I really don’t—it’s going to be hard to imagine that that is not going to be substantiated, and we’ll have to wait and see, but I think we’re in for more. Now we find out today in Time magazine that five pictures of Bush and Abramoff together. We find out that there are numerous contacts between the White House and Abramoff and his clients. So we are—hang on. We got a long way to go. A long, long way to go.
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MR. RUSSERT: Mary Matalin, many are questioning whether or not the Republicans or the Democrats are serious about reform. Trent Lott back in November said this about John McCain, who had introduced legislation dealing with this: “John McCain needs to relax. He needs to focus on national security and issues critical to our country. We don’t need a new law on lobbying.” Have the Republicans been born-again on reform?
MS. MATALIN: You know, James is right, Harry Reid has been refreshing. He refused to give back his Abramoff money, because it’s not illegal to petition the government, it’s not illegal to give money to the government. Well, what is unethical and what is illegal and what the people want—not illegal, but what people want to be focused on is where is all—where are our tax payers’ dollars going. Not where are the contributions going, what are they doing with our money? And in the middle of night, under cover of darkness, without legislation being read, across the board, both sides, they’re putting it into their pet projects. That’s what needs to be reformed.
MR. RUSSERT: Well, let’s talk about that, because that’s an important point. In the Wall Street Journal, which is hardly an organ for the Democratic Party, wrote this, “When Republicans took control of the purse strings in 1995, the federal budget was $1.5 trillion dollars. It’s now $2.55 trillion dollars, or $5 million dollars a minute. And the latest Treasury data reveal that fiscal 2005 federal outlays grew by another $179 billion dollars, an 8 percent increase, and more than twice the rate of inflation.” And then they added this to the editorial, “The smell of bacon.” In ‘95, when Republicans captured both houses of Congress, there were 1439 earmarked projects, the special projects you talked about, they cost $10 billion dollars. Ten years later, nearly 14,000 specific earmarked projects by individuals congressmen and senators, $27 billion dollars. Republicans control both houses of Congress.
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MR. BEGALA: …I think—we agree about this earmarking congressional reform and the way the congressman in both parties hide the way they spend their money. But I got the most important reviews for the book yesterday: Diane and I went to Houston, our friend Analie Sanchez was getting married. We went to lunch with my dad. ‘OK, Dad, what did you think?’ And it was interesting—he picked up on something that I’d forgotten was in the book, he said, ‘The thing that troubles me most’—and this is a guy who voted for Ronald Reagan and spent his career in the oil business in Texas, he’s no liberal—he said, ‘What bothers me the most was that President Bush hired a lobbyist from the mining industry to be the number two guy in the Interior Department.’ And that he says, in the book, he says, ‘My goal is to turn out the lights on the mine safety agency.’ That’s just, you know, one guy’s real world response. This is the problem of the culture of corruption. Lord Acton was right, absolute power corrupts absolutely. And that’s what, I think, Madison was looking for in his checks and balances. We don’t have that right now. In part, because Democrats have been too feckless and ineffective in campaigning. That’s why we wrote the book, though.
Apparently either my loud mufflers were not brought up during the interview, or loud mufflers were not seen as a threat to my ability to maintain secrecy.
This was on page eight of my morning paper.