Calculate the given surface integral [Mathematical physics]

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating a surface integral of a vector field over a specified part of an ellipsoid, with the vector field defined in terms of its components. The problem involves applying the divergence theorem and understanding the implications of the vector field's form and dimensional consistency.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the possibility of using the divergence theorem to relate the surface integral to a volume integral. There are attempts to express the vector field in cylindrical coordinates and concerns about the dimensional compatibility of the terms in the vector field. Questions arise regarding the calculation of the divergence and the determination of the normal vector on the surface of the ellipsoid.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively questioning the assumptions and definitions involved in the problem, particularly regarding the vector field's form and the calculation of the divergence. Some guidance has been offered on how to find the normal vector and the implications of the divergence calculation, but no consensus has been reached on the correct approach or solution.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the proper setup for the integral and the implications of the divergence theorem. Participants note the need to consider additional surfaces to enclose the volume and the challenges posed by the singularity in the vector field at certain points.

Mulz
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Homework Statement


Calculate

\int_{S} \vec{F} \cdot d\vec{S} where

\vec{F} = z \hat{z} - \frac{x\hat{x} + y \hat{y} }{ x^2 + y^2 }

And S is part of the Ellipsoid x^2 + y^2 + 2z^2 = 4 , z > 0 and the normal directed such that

\vec{n} \cdot \hat{z} > 0

Homework Equations


All the above. There are the Gauss integrals

\int_{S} \vec{F} \cdot d\vec{S} = \int_{V} \vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{F} dV

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
I tried solving the problem by introducing

\rho \hat{\rho} = x \hat{x} + y \hat{y}

Thus expressing the vectorfield in cylindrical coordinates. I also drew the figure which resulted in a half sphere with origo at (0,0.0), top at (0,0,\sqrt{2}) and the rest in XY has 2.

In order for me to solve the problem with Gauss I had to enclose the bottom with another surface.

Because the field is now

\vec{F} = z\hat{z} - \frac{1}{\rho} \hat{\rho}. One can easily see that it is undefined when \rho \rightarrow 0 So I will have to introduce another figure, perhaps a cylinder through origo and the subract this part from the total integral. I don't know how to do this or if I can.

I can also integrate the problem by dividing up the force field but I don't know how to do then. I'm also not sure if it is wise to implement cylindrical coordinates when the figure is clearly more spherical. Makes using the surface integral impossible since it encompasses a cylinder surface and not sphere.
 
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I have a few questions you might find helpful.
1. Must you do the surface integral or can you do the volume integral and then invoke the divergence theorem? If the former, then you can still do the volume integral and use the result as an independent check of your answer.
2. Have you found ##\hat n##? If so, what is it?
3. Are you sure you have the correct form for the vector field ##\vec F##? If so, then you have purely a math problem because the two terms in ##\vec F## are dimensionally incompatible (mathematicians pay little attention to dimensions.) However, it makes the algebra annoyingly cumbersome because one may not use dimensional analysis as a means of checking one's algebra at the different stages of development.
 
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kuruman said:
I have a few questions you might find helpful.
1. Must you do the surface integral or can you do the volume integral and then invoke the divergence theorem? If the former, then you can still do the volume integral and use the result as an independent check of your answer.
2. Have you found ##\hat n##? If so, what is it?
3. Are you sure you have the correct form for the vector field ##\vec F##? If so, then you have purely a math problem because the two terms in ##\vec F## are dimensionally incompatible (mathematicians pay little attention to dimensions.) However, it makes the algebra annoyingly cumbersome because one may not use dimensional analysis as a means of checking one's algebra at the different stages of development.

I'm not sure how to do the volume integral. I try to use the \vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{F} and see that it yields 1. Thus the volume integral is simply the volume of the ellipsoid. This is a wrong answer as the answer sheet says that it should be \vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{F} = 1-2\pi \delta^{2}(\vec{\rho}) but I only get it to one when doing the calculations. The second term is the "line source density", that is kh = -2\pi \sqrt{2} and doing the volume integral of the 1 and adding in this second term gives the right answer. I'm not sure why it is that way. The root 2 is the height.

2. I don't know how to get \hat{n}. On the bottom surface it's obviously -z but I'm not sure what it is on the ellipsoid. Maybe I can use d\vec{S} = r^2d\theta d\phi \hat{n}
 
Mulz said:
... but I only get it to one when doing the calculations.
You have to be careful here. When you find the divergence in cartesian coordinates, you get
$$\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{F} = 1-\frac{2(x^2+y^2)}{(x^2+y^2)^2}+\frac{2}{x^2+y^2}$$Is that equal to ##1~##everywhere?
To get ##\hat n##: remember that on the surface of the ellipsoid you have ##\varphi (x,y,z)=x^2+y^2+2z^2=4=const##. In what direction is ##\vec{\nabla}\varphi(x,y,z)## on the surface of the ellipsoid? In other words, pretend that the ellipsoid is a charged conductor and you are looking for the direction of the electric field on its surface.
 
kuruman said:
You have to be careful here. When you find the divergence in cartesian coordinates, you get
$$\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{F} = 1-\frac{2(x^2+y^2)}{(x^2+y^2)^2}+\frac{2}{x^2+y^2}$$Is that equal to ##1~##everywhere?
To get ##\hat n##: remember that on the surface of the ellipsoid you have ##\varphi (x,y,z)=x^2+y^2+2z^2=4=const##. In what direction is ##\vec{\nabla}\varphi(x,y,z)## on the surface of the ellipsoid? In other words, pretend that the ellipsoid is a charged conductor and you are looking for the direction of the electric field on its surface.
The two last terms in the divergence take out each other so it should be 1?
 
I repeat
kuruman said:
Is that equal to ##1~##everywhere?
By "everywhere" I mean all points in space.
 

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