Calculating the rotational component of a force on a Newtonian body?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the rotational component of a force acting on a Newtonian body, specifically a square object in two dimensions. Participants explore the relationship between force vectors, torque, and the resulting motion, addressing both translational and rotational dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes breaking up the force vector into components for translation and rotation, questioning how the rotational vector relates to the object's actual rotation.
  • Another participant states the relationship between tangential force and torque, providing the equation T = r*F_t and discussing the effect of the angle of force application on the tangential component.
  • A participant emphasizes that translational acceleration is governed by the total force, not just the component intersecting the center of mass.
  • Further elaboration indicates that both force components contribute to translational motion, while only the tangential component drives rotational motion.
  • A later reply cautions that while the relationship T = I*a is valid for simple problems, it does not hold in general due to the inertia tensor's behavior in different frames of reference.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of certain equations and concepts, particularly regarding the inertia tensor and its constancy across different frames. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the relationship between force components and motion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the general applicability of certain equations, particularly in relation to the inertia tensor and its dependence on the frame of reference. There are also assumptions about the conditions under which the discussed relationships hold true.

bl184999
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I am trying to simulate a square object affected by a force in two dimensions. I can break up the force vector into a vector whose extension intersects the center of gravity for translation and a vector perpendicular to that for rotation. My question is: how does this rotational vector relate to the actual rotation of the object?

picture at:
http://www.crazylambs.com/images/square.jpg
 
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The relationship between tangential force F_t (which is perpendicular to the surface) and torque T is T = r*F_t, where 'r' is the distance from the center of rotation to the applied force. The torque and angular acceleration are related by T = I*a, where I is the moment of inertia. Note that as the square turnes, if the force remains constant, the tangential component changes as well, because the angle the force makes with the surface varies.
 
Thank you so much :)!
 
bl184999 said:
I can break up the force vector into a vector whose extension intersects the center of gravity for translation...
The translational acceleration is governed by the total force, not just the component that intersects the center of mass.
 
To elaborate on what Doc Al has said, the translational motion will be driven by both of your force components (the total force). The rotational motion will only be driven by the tangential component.
 
Andy Resnick said:
The torque and angular acceleration are related by T = I*a, where I is the moment of inertia.
Careful! While that is correct for this, and for other simple freshman-level problems, it is not true in general. The inertia tensor for a rigid body is always constant in body-fixed coordinates for a rigid body (it's a rigid body, after all). It is not in general constant from the perspective of an inertia frame. Freshman-level problems are always constructed to ensure that the inertial frame inertia tensor is constant, in which case T = I*a is valid.
 

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