Calculating Velocity: Moon Around Earth & Clocks in Burj Khalifa

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the velocity of two clocks located at different heights in the Burj Khalifa, considering the effects of Earth's rotation and potential time dilation. Participants explore the implications of their calculations and the relevance of various physical theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines their approach to calculating the velocity of clocks at different heights, using Earth's rotation and basic physics formulas.
  • Another participant points out the relevance of the Lorentz Transformation and the gamma factor, suggesting that gravitational time dilation should also be considered in the calculations.
  • A later reply emphasizes that gravitational time dilation is likely the more significant factor affecting the clocks' time differences.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the factors influencing the time difference between the clocks, particularly regarding the significance of gravitational time dilation versus the effects of relative velocity. No consensus is reached on the primary factor affecting the clocks.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to specific formulas and concepts, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the application of these formulas and the extent of their relevance to the scenario presented.

Anakin Delabelle
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Sometimes I get so bored that I just try to calculate certain experiments I've heard without know the solution. Like using the basic formula to calculate the speed of the moon around the Earth. This time I tried to calculate the differences between 2 clocks, on put on the highest building in the world (Burj Khalifa) with 828m of the ground and one in its basement so 0m.

First of all, I went searching for some variables I need to use :
  • Rotation of the Earth = 23h 59min 04s = 86164 s
  • Radius of Earth = 6378 x 103 m
  • Speed of light = 299 792 458 m/s

I also found the formula I needed to use :


cd0ef0ab32cb75d24e1baca01106d02f0d0ae0bd


d047edd48fc8cbe8c6277b0115d66be121e46ed9

To find the Velocity, I used the simple formula
b5edc54db08559dc3e33cb3cc568126e12b46521
and
e463711972f03d38362b2a4f330ed8a9d4b172b9


So, I'm trying to find the velocity of those 2 clocks relative to the center of the earth. And because one clock is further (as we see in the formula, if the angular speed is constant) it would have a faster velocity so it should go faster in time.

Velocity clock basement :

gif.latex?v_%7B1%7D%3D%5Cfrac%7B2.%5Cpi%7D%7B86164s%7D%20.6378.10%5E3m%20%3D%20465.gif


Velocity clock on top :

f.latex?v_%7B2%7D%3D%5Cfrac%7B2.%5Cpi%7D%7B86164s%7D%20.%286378.10%5E3m+828m%29%20%3D%20465.gif


Then I chose for a timeframe of an hour = 3600s

That means I need to calculate the space they have done with their velocity :

gif.latex?x_%7B1%7D%3D%20465.0916379%5Cfrac%7Bm%7D%7Bs%7D.3600s%3D1674329.gif


gif.latex?x_%7B2%7D%3D%20465.1520167%5Cfrac%7Bm%7D%7Bs%7D.3600s%3D1674547.gif
Now we should have all the variables for the formula I first mentioned, so let's fill it in :D

For the clock in the basement :

5Cfrac%7Bm%7D%7Bs%7D%7D%7B%5Cleft%20%28%20299792458%5Cfrac%7Bm%7D%7Bs%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5E2%7D.gif
gif.latex?3599%2C9999999956680s%20%3D%203600s%20-%204%2C33192.gif


So 4.33192 nanoseconds faster than the center of the earth.
Now for the clock on top :

5Cfrac%7Bm%7D%7Bs%7D%7D%7B%5Cleft%20%28%20299792458%5Cfrac%7Bm%7D%7Bs%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5E2%7D.gif
gif.latex?3599%2C9999999956667s%20%3D%203600s%20-%204%2C33329.gif


So 4.33329 nanoseconds faster than the center of the earth.There seems to be a theoretical a difference of 1.37 picoseconds after 1h on the clocks.

First of all, this is my first time trying to solve such a question, I just graduated high school. But I'm really interested in this field of physics.

If I made a mistake somewhere I would love to hear it, also English grammar mistakes will be visible, my apologize for those also.

Have a great day further.
 

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Anakin Delabelle said:
I also found the formula I needed to use :


cd0ef0ab32cb75d24e1baca01106d02f0d0ae0bd


d047edd48fc8cbe8c6277b0115d66be121e46ed9

The first formula relates the time of an event in two reference frames related by the Lorentz Transformation for a relative velocity ##v## in the x-direction, and isn't relevant here.

The second formula, for the gamma factor, is relevant here.

Note you you may also want to take gravitational time dilation into account. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation

Note also that "moving clocks run slow" in your reference frame.

You may also be interested in the famous Hafele-Keating experiment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele–Keating_experiment
 
Oh well, I've still got a lot to learn, but thanks for the referrals, I'll try to understand them :)
 
Anakin Delabelle said:
Oh well, I've still got a lot to learn, but thanks for the referrals, I'll try to understand them :)

I think gravitational time dilation is by far the greater factor in this case.
 

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