Calculus relationship between current, resistance, and voltage

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between current, resistance, and voltage in the context of calculus, drawing an analogy to the relationships between position, velocity, and acceleration. Participants examine whether these electrical concepts can be expressed similarly through calculus operations such as differentiation and integration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the relationships among current, voltage, and resistance might be analogous to the calculus relationships between position, velocity, and acceleration.
  • Another participant asserts that current, voltage, and resistance are not related in terms of calculus, emphasizing that they follow a proportionality relation as described by Ohm's Law (V = IR).
  • A different viewpoint introduces an alternative form of Ohm's Law (E = rhoJ) and discusses its relevance in applied electrical engineering and condensed matter physics, suggesting that calculus plays a significant role in these studies.
  • One participant provides integral expressions for current and voltage, attempting to relate them to resistance, and suggests that these expressions can be interpreted in a calculus framework.
  • Questions arise regarding the notation used in the integral expressions, specifically about the meanings of the symbols and their implications in the context of the discussion.
  • Clarifications are offered regarding the notation for line and surface integrals, with references to external resources for further understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the relationships among current, voltage, and resistance can be framed in a calculus context. Some argue for a purely proportional relationship, while others explore more complex integral forms, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the interpretation of integral notation and the definitions of terms used in the calculus expressions. The discussion also highlights the dependence on specific contexts, such as applied electrical engineering versus theoretical physics.

partialfracti
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I remember that Position, velocity, and acceleration are all related in calculus somehow. Perhaps if one differentiates position, the result is the velocity, and if one differentiates velocity, the result is the acceleration. And the process can be reversed by integration. In this case, perhaps it would be that if one integrates the acceleration, one gets the velocity. And if one integrates velocity, one gets position.

I know about Ohm's Law that Current equals voltage divided by resistance.

In the field of electromagnetism in calculus, are current, resistance, and voltage related in a way analagous to the relationship between position, velocity, and acceleration in calculus? If so, what is the relationship of current, voltage, and resistance in terms of calculus?
 
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They are not related in terms of calculus. Instead, it is a simple proportionality relation as given by Ohm' Law:

V = I R
 
The V = RI relation is most useful in applied electrical engineering, such as when designing electrical circuits with ready-made components.

However, when studying the individual components of circuitry, i.e. when working the actual physics of the materials involved, Ohm's law is written in the alternative form E = rhoJ. In this form, you have the electric field E, and the current density J, which are vectors that can eventually be plugged into Maxwell's equations, and models of condensed matter, depending on the particular system studied.

And one can usually get as much calculus as their appetite can handle when they start using EM and condensed matter theory.
 
Last edited:
partialfracti said:
I remember that Position, velocity, and acceleration are all related in calculus somehow. Perhaps if one differentiates position, the result is the velocity, and if one differentiates velocity, the result is the acceleration. And the process can be reversed by integration. In this case, perhaps it would be that if one integrates the acceleration, one gets the velocity. And if one integrates velocity, one gets position.

I know about Ohm's Law that Current equals voltage divided by resistance.

In the field of electromagnetism in calculus, are current, resistance, and voltage related in a way analagous to the relationship between position, velocity, and acceleration in calculus? If so, what is the relationship of current, voltage, and resistance in terms of calculus?

[tex]I= \int_S \vec J \cdot d\vec S ,\;\;\;\; V= -\int_C \vec E \cdot d\vec l[/tex]

Resistor...well is resistor! If you don't like V=IR then resistor is:

[tex]R=\frac{-\int_C \vec E \cdot d\vec l }{\int_S \vec J \cdot d\vec S}[/tex]

Which is a fancy way of saying

[tex]R=\frac V I[/tex]

:smile: :smile:

Or if you still want more:

[tex]I= \int_S \vec J \cdot d\vec S \;=\; \int_S \sigma \vec E \cdot d\vec S \;=\; \int_S \mu\rho_v \vec E \cdot d\vec S[/tex]

Where [itex]\sigma[/itex] is conductance, [itex]\mu[/itex] is mobility and [itex]\rho_v[/itex] is volume charge density.
 
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Thats so right, nice to see the information
 
yungman said:
[tex]I= \int_S \vec J \cdot d\vec S ,\;\;\;\; V= -\int_C \vec E \cdot d\vec l[/tex]

Resistor...well is resistor! If you don't like V=IR then resistor is:

[tex]R=\frac{-\int_C \vec E \cdot d\vec l }{\int_S \vec J \cdot d\vec S}[/tex]

What is dl with an arrow over the l? What is dS with an arrow over the S?

I don't think that the C next to the integration sign means current since I usually means current. What does the C mean next to the integration sign?
 
Last edited:
partialfracti said:
What is dl with an arrow over the l? What is dS with an arrow over the S?

I don't think that the C next to the integration sign means current since I usually means current. What does the C mean next to the integration sign?

C is for line integral, S is for surface integral.

http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/Classes/CalcIII/LineIntegralsPtI.aspx

I like Paul Dawnkins book/notes. Serve on that site and find surface integral. You can even download the whole book.
 

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