Can Chilli Grenades Really Control Rioters?

[Ivan Seeking]

Indian defence scientists are planning to put one of the world's hottest chilli powders into hand grenades.

They say the devices will be used to control rioters and in counter-insurgency operations...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8119591.stm

There has to be a good joke here but it's not coming...

Turbo! Stay out of the grenades!

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Well its more or less what pepper spray is made of. Back when I had a co-worker tell me that he used to spray his tacos with his pepper spray.

 

[Pengwuino]

Finally a thread that lives up to its title.

 

[Equate]

I don't know what the fuss is all about.

Where I live at, we just eat the stuff. Chile is an everyday supplemental ingredient in all kinds of dishes.

Tastes goog!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I don't know what the fuss is all about.

Where I live at, we just eat the stuff. Chile is an everyday supplemental ingredient in all kinds of dishes.

Tastes goog!

Where do you live?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Note also

The chilli, known as Bhut Jolokia, is said to be 1,000 times hotter than commonly used kitchen chilli.

But check this out!
http://www.chez-williams.com/Hot Sauce/hothome.htm

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

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[Civilized]

Years ago I was at a party and one dude wanted to be macho and show that he could drink some novelty hot sauce that someone brought as a gag gift. He drank a capful and barely managed to restrain himself from yelping (although I really doubt any of the women were impressed). But I guess one of his eyes must have watered, and then he must have touched his eye with trace amounts of hot sauce remaining on his finger. There was screaming, and I don't believe he was able to recover that night.

 

[turbo]

Grenades? What a waste of good chilies! Should save those peppers for my marinades and sauces. My wife is taking her shift caring for her mother, so I picked the easy way out for supper last night. Applegate Farms ballpark franks on rolls with habanero relish and hot mustard. Mmmm!

 

[turbo]

One of my college roommates used to like hot stuff (though not as hot as I did), and on his last shift stocking shelves at a supermarket before heading off to school, he bragged that he could drink a bottle of Tobasco sauce. A bunch of his co-workers put up money and Tom took the bet. They shook a whole bottle of Tobasco into a paper cup, Tom gulped it down, grabbed the cash, then ran out to the loading dock and immediately threw up. The bad part is that the vomiting was pretty convulsive and a lot of Tobasco ended up coming out of his nose. OUCH! He should have trained a bit for that one.

 

[Equate]

Where do you live?

El Paso, TX

Chilies grow like weeds around here...

 

[turbo]

What a coincidence. Just as I scrolled up your post, the "shuffle" mode of my CD player had switched to "Mexican Divorce" by Ry Cooder. "Down below El Paso like Juarez..." Perfect timing.

 

[Equate]

What a coincidence. Just as I scrolled up your post, the "shuffle" mode of my CD player had switched to "Mexican Divorce" by Ry Cooder. "Down below El Paso like Juarez..." Perfect timing.

That's funny!

I saw the picture of your house you posted last week (?) with your big garden. Do you grow chilies up there where you live?

 

[turbo]

That's funny!

I saw the picture of your house you posted last week (?) with your big garden. Do you grow chilies up there where you live?

Sure do! Jalapeno, habanero, cayenne, Hungarian wax all have a place in the garden. We have been cold and rainy for the past couple of months, so I'm hoping for a nice hot dry spell to get the peppers jump-started.

 

[junglebeast]

For anyone who's not convinced about how hot that stuff is read this product review:

http://www.hotsauceblog.com/hotsaucearchives/blairs-16-million-product-review/

 

[Moonbear]

I thought chili grenades are what happens AFTER you eat the chili.

 

[ranger]

Meh, no big deal. What westerners call hot is nothing at all. Whenever I eat out I take my own homemade hot sauce :p I remember when my cousin who migrated to the States first had Chilli. He was very disapponted.

One thing about these so called "death sauce" is that they have no flavor whatsoever. They only take away from the food. The best sauces I've had were both extremely hot and tastey. But it's all homemade stuff or locally made.

Most overrated hot sauce: tabasco

 

[junglebeast]

Meh, no big deal. What westerners call hot is nothing at all. Whenever I eat out I take my own homemade hot sauce :p One thing about these so called "death sauce" is that they have no flavor whatsoever. They only take away from the food. The best sauces I've had were both extremely hot and tastey.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. First you say Western sauce is no good because it's not spicy enough. Then you say that the "death sauce" has no flavor, and it only takes away from the food. If the death sauce has no flavor, then all it does is add spiciness, but if adding spiciness takes away from the food, then why don't you like Western sauce?

I don't know, it makes no sense at all to me...to simulate the feeling of my mouth being on fire. How can you taste any flavor when your mouth is burning up?

 

[turbo]

Most overrated hot sauce: tabasco

It is not only sour (vinegar), but not very hot. Tabasco is mass-produced crap. If I had the acreage and some financial backing, I could sink that company. Consumer-inertia and brand-loyalty would sustain them for some time, but I think that I would be able to unseat them in a couple of years. Their product is dated and inadequate.

 

[Moonbear]

Tabasco isn't hot. I don't like it anyway, because it has too much vinegar in it, so it more often spoils the taste of food. (Edit: turbo beat me to it!) The tastiest hot sauce I ever had was one that someone I knew bought when he visited one of the Carribean islands (I don't remember which one anymore). It was something homemade. We had a big bbq with chicken wings made with that sauce on them...mmmmmmm, yummy yummy! It had a real kick to it, but not so much that you couldn't taste the flavor.

That's really a challenge, finding something that has both heat AND flavor. In order to get the heat, too many people just start subtracting other ingredients and adding more of their flavorless hot sauce, so there's no flavor left.

I had a very tasty cooking accident not long ago. I was bbq'ing some chicken quarters, and put on a dry rub first. I decided I wanted it spicier...the dry rub is a little spicy, but not much...something that all but the most sensitive can eat. I have a big container of chipotle powder, and tried to sprinkle a little on, and oops, too much poured out. The chicken was fully coated in it. I grilled it, added some homemade bbq sauce (recipe shamelessly stolen from my boyfriend), and nearly choked on the first bite not expecting it to be quite that hot (I've used the chipotle powder before, and it was never very hot...I just never used that much before). But, once I knew to take smaller bites, and got past the skin and into the underlying meat that the flavor had really cooked through into (too often all the flavor just stays on the skin), it was REALLY tasty. That nice smoked chipotle taste was wonderful, and a pleasant kick.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

No way to get hotter than Blair's 16 million. That is pure capsacin.

 

[Moonbear]

No way to get hotter than Blair's 16 million. That is pure capsacin.

I'm surprised it's even legal to sell that. That's beyond food and into toxin in such a purified form.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Tabasco isn't hot. I don't like it anyway, because it has too much vinegar in it, so it more often spoils the taste of food.

Tsu hates the smell of Tobasco, but I love it on nachos. The vinegar reacts with the cheese [a super-sharp cheddar] and produces a unique flavor that is quite good. But at only 2140 scoville units, it is the lowest rated hot sauce on the link above.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm surprised it's even legal to sell that. That's beyond food and into toxin in such a purified form.

It surprises me a bit as well... It seems like we talked about this and determined that the dose [the container sold] isn't large enough to kill anyone. But then I have heard of people dying from pepper spray [rare, but it does happen in law enforcement situations from time to time], so it seems possible to me that some people could react negatively and die from the stuff.

 

[ranger]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. First you say Western sauce is no good because it's not spicy enough. Then you say that the "death sauce" has no flavor, and it only takes away from the food. If the death sauce has no flavor, then all it does is add spiciness, but if adding spiciness takes away from the food, then why don't you like Western sauce?

I don't know, it makes no sense at all to me...to simulate the feeling of my mouth being on fire. How can you taste any flavor when your mouth is burning up?

Whats the purpose of a hot sauce if you put it on food and then only feel like eating half of what you got? When I eat my food with hot sauce, eat spoon full has a fair amount of sauce mixed in. This is why its important for my sauces to have both heat and flavor. And yes, my mouth is constantly on fire, but the sauce has such an addicting flavor that I can't stop..even if my eyes are tearing...thats what you call a good hot sauce.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Whats the purpose of a hot sauce if you put it on food and then only feel like eating half of what you got? When I eat my food with hot sauce, eat spoon full has a fair amount of sauce mixed in. This is why its important for my sauces to have both heat and flavor. And yes, my mouth is constantly on fire, but the sauce has such an addicting flavor that I can't stop..even if my eyes are tearing...thats what you call a good hot sauce.

The fact is that us chile lovers are addicted to our own endorphins. The chile pepper people investigated claims that some people from NM and Texas would actually crave chiles while on vacation [where they couldn't get any]. Sure enough, they're addicts.

 

[junglebeast]

The fact is that us chile lovers are addicted to our own endorphins. The chile pepper people investigated claims that some people from NM and Texas would actually crave chiles while on vacation [where they couldn't get any]. Sure enough, they're addicts.

Finally, someone has explained it in a way that I can understand! But then again, what pleasurable activity can't be linked back to some chemical/hormonal addition? Our whole natural body cycle is just one drug induced craving to the next..

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Finally, someone has explained it in a way that I can understand! But then again, what pleasurable activity can't be linked back to some chemical/hormonal addition? Our whole natural body cycle is just one drug induced craving to the next..

As I understand it, this is actually a pain response, much like biting one's fingernails. The hotter the sauce, the greater the pain response.

 

[Moonbear]

As I understand it, this is actually a pain response, much like biting one's fingernails. The hotter the sauce, the greater the pain response.

Biting your fingernails causes pain? You're not supposed to chew your whole finger off!

I'm not sure that craving a favorite food when you're away from it is a sign of an addiction. I think it's more of a culture shock kind of thing. I don't think it's the pain response people are after, but more that over time, the response is downregulated to the point where you need hotter and hotter foods just to taste it...and anything less spicy tastes bland and boring. I think as you are able to eat hotter foods, you can taste the other flavors in those peppers used to add the heat, and those are enjoyable flavors. That's why I don't like hot food that's just hot, or so hot that your mouth just feels on fire and gets numb to any taste. That was only good for college bets. There needs to be flavor with the heat or it's pointless.

 

[turbo]

There needs to be flavor with the heat or it's pointless.

That's where the simplicity of my chili relishes comes in. If the flavor of the peppers, garlic, and dill doesn't come through, it's a wasted effort, IMO. I have practically abandoned the tomato-based salsas that I canned for a few years, because since I refined the chili relish recipes, that's about all my wife and I eat on hot dogs, burgers, etc. Jalapeno/cayenne/Hungarian wax mix relish for her, and habanero for me.

My wife bought some locally-made tomato-based "habanero" salsa to serve at a get-together recently. Pretty disappointing, compared to our own home-made salsas. Habanero is the 9th ingredient listed on the label. Blech! About all you taste is tomato. Even my tamest tomato/jalapeno salsas have more kick and flavor than that stuff. I guess she knew what she was doing, since some people studiously avoided my home-made salsas due to past experiences with the heat. Really, all they would have to do is not put so much on a 'burger, and still get the nice flavor.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm not sure that craving a favorite food when you're away from it is a sign of an addiction.

I didn't just pull this from thin air, I was citing the results of study. I will try to dig it up later.

 

[Moonbear]

I didn't just pull this from thin air, I was citing the results of study. I will try to dig it up later.

I'll be curious to see it. I'm not doubting the "data" as presented, just the conclusions drawn from it. People from the south crave grits when they move north too, but I don't think that indicates an addiction. I KNOW I'm going to crave rare meat when in Mozambique, but I'm going to be eating everything well done anyway.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

After a bit of searching, it appears that this is and has been the subject of debate for some time.

Abstract This paper deals with the general problem of the acquisition of positive affective responses, by study of the reversal of an innate aversion to the irritant properties of chili pepper. Interviews, observations, and measurements were carried out in both Mexico and the United States. Exposure to gradually increasing levels of chili in food seems to be a sufficient condition for preference development. Chili likers are not insensitive to the irritation that it produces. They come to like the same burning sensation that deters animals and humans that dislike chili; there is a clear hedonic shift. This could be produced by association with positive events, including enhancement of the taste of bland foods, postingestional effects, or social rewards. It is also possible that the initial negative response to chili pepper is essential for the eventual liking. Chili stimulates an innate sensory warning system but is not harmful. The enjoyment of the irritation may result from the user's appreciation that the sensation and the body's defensive reaction to it are harmless. Eating of chili, riding on roller coasters, taking very hot baths, and many other human activities can be considered instances of thrill seeking or enjoyment of constrained risks. Evidence for and against various explanations of chili ingestion is presented.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/kgur24j824102342/

The tendency to become addicted across a number of different substances or activities was determined for a sample of 573 subjects, including college students and their parents. Four components of addiction were defined: craving, tolerance, withdrawal and lack of control. Subjects rated the extent to which each of these components characterized their relationships to each often substance/activities: coffee, tea, cola beverages, favorite alcoholic beverage, chocolate, nonchocolate sweets, hot chili pepper on food, cigarettes, gambling and video games. An «addiction score» was computed for each subject and each substance/activity, by summing the scores on the four components. Correlations in addiction scores for almost all activities were positive, but low (between 0 and.30), with the exception of chocolate and on chocolate sweets, where the correlation was higher

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=4637961

This one appears to include capsaicin with other drugs but doesn't specify it in the abstract.

ABSTRACT
Pharmacologic treatment of drug and alcohol dependency has largely been disappointing, and new therapeutic targets and hypotheses are needed. There is accumulating evidence indicating a central role for the previously unknown but ubiquitous endocannabinoid physiological control system (EPCS) in the regulation of the rewarding effects of abused substances. Thus an endocannabinoid hypothesis of drug reward is postulated. Endocannabinoids mediate retrograde signaling in neuronal tissues and are involved in the regulation of synaptic transmission to suppress neurotransmitter release by the presynaptic cannabinoid receptors (CB-Rs). This powerful modulatory action on synaptic transmission has significant functional implications and interactions with the effects of abused substances. Our data, along with those from other investigators, provide strong new evidence for a role for EPCS modulation in the effects of drugs of abuse, and specifically for involvement of cannabinoid receptors in the neural basis of addiction. Cannabinoids and endocannabinoids appear to be involved in adding to the rewarding effects of addictive substances, including, nicotine, opiates, alcohol, cocaine, and BDZs. The results suggest that the EPCS may be an important natural regulatory mechanism for drug reward and a target for the treatment of addictive disorders.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121430600/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

I haven't spotted the report that I heard about yet, which was sponsored by the pepper industry. I will do some more poking around a little later, but the references above show that it is a point of debate.

From what I have read so far, it appears that capsaicin is not considered to be additictive in the same sense as tobacco, for example, because abusing capsaicin will burn out the receptors for it. In the case of tobacco, abuse increases the number of receptors. But this doesn't contradict the report that I was referencing. It would only seem to set a limit on the effects of abuse, and time.