Can Gases Lower Their Temperature Through Radiation Heat Transfer?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether gases can lower their temperature through radiation heat transfer, particularly in the context of thermal radiation and its applicability to different states of matter, including gases, liquids, and solids. Participants explore the mechanisms of heat transfer in gases and the conditions under which they might radiate energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if gases can lower their temperature through radiation, noting that while air transfers heat by convection, the role of radiation is unclear.
  • Another participant mentions that thermal radiation is proportional to the fourth power of absolute temperature, suggesting that radiation effects are minimal at room temperature.
  • A participant expresses curiosity about whether fluids can radiate, referencing a Wikipedia article that seems to imply only solids can emit thermal radiation.
  • One participant introduces a concept related to the absorption of thermal radiation by gases, discussing the equilibrium between a gas and a photon gas, and how this relates to radiation emission.
  • A later reply challenges the idea that only solids can radiate, arguing that fluids can also have surfaces and thus can radiate energy, using the Earth's atmosphere as an example.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether gases can radiate heat effectively. There are competing views on the ability of fluids to radiate and the implications of thermal radiation at different temperatures.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and conditions under which gases and fluids can radiate thermal energy. The discussion highlights the complexity of thermal radiation in different states of matter and the limitations of existing references.

fluidistic
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Can gases lower their temperature by heat radiation?
For example in a common room (at around 30°C), I know that air transfers heat by convection, but does it also transfers heat by radiation? (Like a solid body)
The Sun does, but its surface is a plasma I think.
 
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The heat (thermal) radiation goes as the fourth power of absolute temperature, so it is very small at room temperature.
 
Bob S said:
The heat (thermal) radiation goes as the fourth power of absolute temperature, so it is very small at room temperature.

Ah ok.
But does fluids radiate? For instance in wikipedia they say
Thermal radiation is electromagnetic radiation emitted from the surface of an object which is due to the object's temperature.
which seems to exclude the case of any fluid radiation. As if only solid bodies could radiate.
I do not really care that air at room temperature radiates very few or a lot, but I do care if it does radiate or not. I'm just curious if it's a property of only solids and plasma, solids-plasma-gases and liquids.

Wikipedia's reference : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation#Properties
 
It can be related to how well the gas absorbs thermal radiation. Consider a gas in a box in thermal equilibrium with a photon gas. The gas has a certain optical depth, so a photon has a cerain probability of being absorbed by the gas per unit time and per unit volume. This then means that the gas must emit the same amount of radiation pr unit time and volume as it is in equilibrium. But since what the gas emits does not depend on whether or not the photon gas is actually present, this is a general result.

In case of a solid, it will absorb or reflect all the radiation incident on its boundary and then the above argument (so-called detailed balance argument) yields the familar Stefan Boltzmann law.
 
fluidistic said:
But does fluids radiate? For instance in wikipedia they say which seems to exclude the case of any fluid radiation. As if only solid bodies could radiate.
I do not really care that air at room temperature radiates very few or a lot, but I do care if it does radiate or not. I'm just curious if it's a property of only solids and plasma, solids-plasma-gases and liquids.
That's just sloppy wording or a simplification by wiki, as obviously, fluids can have surfaces. And a well-defined surface isn't really even necessary...

The Earth's atmosphere, for example, radiates energy into space: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/EnergyBalance/page6.php
 
Thank you very much to all of you.
 

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