Can Hermitian Matrices be Traceless?

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    Hermitian Matrices
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of Hermitian matrices, specifically addressing whether they can be traceless. Participants explore the implications of given mathematical conditions and provide proofs related to eigenvalues, trace, and dimensionality of these matrices.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof that the eigenvalues of Hermitian matrices M_i are ±1, based on their unitary nature.
  • The same participant claims that the matrices M_i are traceless, deriving this from the commutation relations and trace properties.
  • Another proof suggests that M_i cannot be odd-dimensional matrices, arguing that a traceless matrix cannot have an odd dimension due to the nature of its eigenvalues.
  • Some participants express confidence in the proofs, while others express doubt about specific steps, particularly regarding the trace argument in the second proof.
  • One participant challenges the validity of a step in the second proof, suggesting a potential mistake in the manipulation of matrices.
  • Another participant defends the original proof's approach, indicating that the manipulation is acceptable as a cyclic permutation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

While some participants agree with the proofs presented, there is disagreement regarding the correctness of a specific step in the second proof, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved on this point.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the validity of the second proof, and there are differing interpretations of matrix manipulation rules that affect the conclusions drawn.

SgrA*
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Hello,
Here's a textbook question and my solution, please check if it is correct, I'm slightly doubtful about the second part.

Consider Hermitian matrices M_1, M_2, M_3,\ and\ M_4 that obey:
M_i M_j+M_j M_i = 2 \delta_{ij} I \hspace{10mm} for\ i,\ j\ = 1,\ ... ,4

(1) Show that the eigenvalues of M_i are ±1.
Solution: When i = j, \hspace{20mm} M_i M_i = I.
Since M_i are Hermitian, this equation implies that they are unitary. The eigenvalues of a unitary matrix are complex numbers of unit modulus, since it's also Hermitian, they have to be real. So, the eigenvalues have to be ±1. \hspace{20mm} Q.E.D.

(2) Show that M_i are traceless.
Solution: When i ≠ j, \\<br /> M_i M_j = -M_j M_i\\<br /> \Rightarrow M_i M_j M_i = -M_j M_i M_i\\<br /> \Rightarrow M_i M_j M_i = -M_j I\\<br /> \Rightarrow Tr(M_i M_j M_i) = -Tr(M_j) \\<br /> \Rightarrow Tr(M_j M_i M_i) = -Tr(M_j)\\<br /> \Rightarrow Tr(M_j) = -Tr(M_j)\\<br /> \Rightarrow Tr(M_j) = 0. \hspace{20mm} Q.E.D.

(3) Show that M_i cannot be odd-dimensional matrices.
Solution: For some eigenbasis U, D = U^†M_iU, D is a diagonal matrix with Tr(D) = Tr(M_i) and the diagonal elements of D are the eigenvalues, ±1. Also, Tr(D) = Tr(M_i) = 0. An odd dimension cannot result in a traceless matrix, hence by argument of parity, M_i are even dimensional matrices. \hspace{20mm}Q.E.D.

Thanks!
 
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Yes, I think the three proofs are fine. Nothing suspicious about (2) in particular.
 
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Thanks for verifying, I'm still not very confident. :)
 
I can't see why, you've spelled out every step in detail, which part gives you doubt ?
 
I mean, I got it right, but I'm not confident that I can get math right, yet. Hopefully more problems and I'll feel confident about my solutions. Thanks for asking! :)
 
Ah yes I feel that way about physics all the time : )
 
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I think there is a mistake on the 2nd question. Between line 4 and 5 you comutate Mi with Mj which you can't do it. You should put a (-) in front so the final result would be 0=0 . There is another way ;) .
 
No, it's okay - it's a cyclic permutation, just cycled the "wrong" way (or cycled twice)
 

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