Can hydraulic systems replace ebikes in power assisted cycle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the feasibility of using hydraulic systems as a replacement for electric motors in power-assisted bicycles. Participants examine the mechanics, efficiency, and potential benefits of hydraulic systems compared to traditional electric systems and chain drives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a hydraulic power amplifying system could replace electric motors, questioning how such a system would function and whether chains could still be utilized.
  • Others argue that hydraulic systems are less efficient than chain and sprocket drives, suggesting that electric motors provide a more effective means of energy assistance to riders.
  • A participant mentions that variable ratio hydraulic motors and pumps are expensive and inefficient compared to roller chain drives, highlighting the bulkiness and weight of hydraulic accumulators compared to electric batteries.
  • Some participants assert that the concept of a "power amplifying system" violates conservation of energy, emphasizing that power output cannot exceed input.
  • One participant discusses the potential for a hydraulic system to optimize power generation by adjusting hydraulic pressure based on the cyclist's cadence and road conditions, while acknowledging that efficiency concerns limit the practicality of hydraulics.
  • Another participant reflects on the use of hydraulics in America's Cup races, questioning the trade-offs between efficiency and the benefits gained from hydraulic systems in energy storage and control.
  • There are suggestions for innovative applications of hydraulic systems in bicycles, such as multi-rider configurations and energy storage for enhanced performance during races.
  • Some participants mention the concept of regenerative braking and its limitations, proposing alternative energy sources like Stirling engines for potential applications in hybrid vehicles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on the viability of hydraulic systems as a replacement for electric motors. Disagreement exists regarding the efficiency and practicality of hydraulic versus electric systems, as well as the interpretation of energy conservation principles.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to the efficiency of hydraulic systems, the complexity of energy storage mechanisms, and the need for careful design in alternative energy sources. The discussion remains open-ended with unresolved technical considerations.

  • #31
It is very hard to be an inventor if you can't do the calculations and check the conservation laws, and don't have support from a helper who can do it for you.

Without that, about the only way to succeed is to build a working prototype.
 
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  • #32
anorlunda said:
It is very hard to be an inventor if you can't do the calculations and check the conservation laws, and don't have support from a helper who can do it for you.

Without that, about the only way to succeed is to build a working prototype.
I agree for the most part, but being an inventor of things in ones mind is easy, transferring the ideas to others becomes the hard part if one does not have the proper education.
Before this thread goes into the almost dead zone, I do want to encourage anyone in a mechanical or electrical path to look very closely at what is possible with both hydraulic and electric working together, they are almost the same in many ways.
This might make a great senior project and in my mind has some very unique variations of what is the current norm.:smile:
 
  • #33
RonL said:
I agree for the most part, but being an inventor of things in ones mind is easy, transferring the ideas to others becomes the hard part if one does not have the proper education.
Inventing things in your mind isn't inventing, it is imagining. Inventing means actually designing or creating the thing.
 
  • #34
russ_watters said:
Inventing things in your mind isn't inventing, it is imagining. Inventing means actually designing or creating the thing.
I will have to respectfully disagree, the patent office has many patents, filed by inventors, which have never been built.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention

Invention is often a creative process. An open and curious mind allows an inventor to see beyond what is known. Seeing a new possibility, connection or relationship can spark an invention. Inventive thinking frequently involves combining concepts or elements from different realms that would not normally be put together. Sometimes inventors disregard the boundaries between distinctly separate territories or fields.[citation needed] Several concepts may be considered when thinking about invention.

Re-envision[edit]
To invent is to see anew. Inventors often envision a new idea, seeing it in their mind's eye. New ideas can arise when the conscious mind turns away from the subject or problem when the inventor's focus is on something else, or while relaxing or sleeping. A novel idea may come in a flash—a Eureka! moment. For example, after years of working to figure out the general theory of relativity, the solution came to Einstein suddenly in a dream "like a giant die making an indelible impress, a huge map of the universe outlined itself in one clear vision".[15] Inventions can also be accidental, such as in the case of polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon).
 
  • #35
This is great idea! But transferring the ideas to becomes real so hard.Anyone help you ?
 
  • #36
johnsherdy10 said:
This is great idea! But transferring the ideas to becomes real so hard.Anyone help you ?
Not sure if this is directed at Tabaristiio or me, so I'll give my short answer...this is basically the first time I have shown my drawings to anyone, as I had pretty well come to a conclusion the design would be far too complicated for a minimal return.
 

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