Can I Get into Caltech or MIT with My Academic and Extracurricular Profile?

[erikreinhart]

hello. I want to go to caltech for astrophysics.

GPA: 3.96 (Unweighted)
Course work: 9 IB classes junior year and this coming year. Diploma Candiate. (IB HL Math. IB Chem HL, IB Bio HL, IB physics sl.)

I am testing in 3 IB science classes, for a total of 7 IB tests, which 5 are HL. Also testing AP

AP Calc AB: 3
AP Chem: 3
IB Physics SL: 4

I know those are low, but I am taking college classes to make up for them. MTH251, MTH252, PH211. I am also taking both AP Physics C tests and AP Calc BC end of this year.

ACT: 32 English, 30 Math, 29 Reading, 33 Science. Retaking
SAT Subject tests: 750 Chem, 800 Math II, 720 Physics.

Extracurriculars: AMC (Participent), Math League (state certificate thing), Mid-Valley Regional Math Conference Participent (3 years). Math Help Tutor. NHS. Boy Scouts (Eagle). Avatar (English and Art Magazine.). National Spanish Honor Society.

I also have a job, about 25 hours a week. I also do Valve Source (Half Life 2) mapping as a hobby. I also do tech support for my friends and family members. My Extended Essay is on Schrodinger's Wave Function and its failures.

Thank you for your help.

 

[n!kofeyn]

There is certainly no reason that you should not apply to both. Your credentials are strong. I'm not really sure those schools even bat an eye once they see your test scores are up to their par, as they definitely look at your application essays and recommendation letters more to help them sort out their applicants (who all often look identical in the test scoring department). I think now is the time to concentrate on the parts of your application that don't deal with lists and numbers, and will allow them to see your passion and ability. That is my opinion, but I didn't go to either of those schools, so hopefully someone has more school specific advice. Either way, apply and good luck!

 

[durt]

You won't get into either. Be realistic and look into some less selective colleges. There are certainly a number of solid schools that would suit your needs and would accept you.

 

[jgens]

You won't get into either. Be realistic and look into some less selective colleges. There are certainly a number of solid schools that would suit your needs and would accept you.

While I certainly think that the OP should look into less selective colleges, he/she certainly has a (slim) chance of being accepted to Caltech or M.I.T. Admissions are unpredictable.

 

[cristo]

You won't get into either.

What do you base this comment on? Are you on the admissions board for Caltech or MIT?

 

[j93]

AP Calc AB: 3
AP Chem: 3
IB Physics SL: 4

The Chem and AB Calc 3 are going to hurt your case. Do you have any Extracurriculars that are based around competition in Math and Science?How did you do on AMC? Do you go to a big name HS(Exeter,Stuyvessant and such)? Have you worked as a research assistant at a local university?

Realistically Caltech incoming class size is about 200 and MIT is 1000. If you didnt do well on AMC that will not help since all those kids that did do well are very likely going to apply to MIT and Caltech as well the kids who did well in Science Fairs and the kids who worked as Research Assitants and the kids who absurdly excelled at some other activity.

I also have a job, about 25 hours a week. I also do Valve Source (Half Life 2) mapping as a hobby. I also do tech support for my friends and family members. My Extended Essay is on Schrodinger's Wave Function and its failures.

By Extended Essay do you mean your admissions essay because that really should be more about you.

 

[jgens]

By Extended Essay do you mean your admissions essay because that really should be more about you.

He/She is talking about the Extended Essay that is required for I.B. diploma canidates, not admissions essays. I wouldn't think the EE would help much unless it was exceptional but I'm not entirely familiar with the admissions process.

 

[MissSilvy]

Just so you know, colleges do NOT see AP scores before admission. They aren't part of your application in most universities so they only see the grades on your transcript. That's how I remember it working at any rate.

But yeah, you have a chance but it's slim.

 

[thrill3rnit3]

This might be a little off topic, but how's UChicago/NYU/Berkeley's admission process compared to Caltech/MIT? More selective? About equal?

 

[j93]

Just so you know, colleges do NOT see AP scores before admission. They aren't part of your application in most universities so they only see the grades on your transcript. That's how I remember it working at any rate.

But yeah, you have a chance but it's slim.

Colleges don't see any optional test like any SAT II outside of your 3 required but typically this is reported by students and it is expected to report your AP Scores if you have taken an AP tests through ETS because they will see you have taken the AP Course in your transcripts.
http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/exgrd_rep.html

 

[j93]

This might be a little off topic, but how's UChicago/NYU/Berkeley's admission process compared to Caltech/MIT? More selective? About equal?

Caltech and MIT slightly more competitive.

 

[Pyrrhus]

I wouldn't worry too much. I'll certainly apply to MIT and CalTech, and other top schools. However, remember to apply to other schools. There are plenty of good State schools. Try to avoid falling in the trap of my Undergraduate has to be completed at an Ivy League or a too well known for their own good schools.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Of course you can apply, but you shouldn't apply only to Caltech and MIT. They take a very small fraction of applicants, so you shouldn't ever count on them.

Looking at what you have told us, what I see is a student who has high grades, but does less well with objective assessments. That means that the rest of the application has to be stronger than the average admitted student's.

 

[thrill3rnit3]

would 1 or 2 B's throughout high school hurt your application?

 

[MissSilvy]

No, but less-than-amazing extracurriculars would.

 

[pzona]

My friend's brother got into MIT (although not for astrophysics) with credentials similar to yours. Obviously this doesn't mean you're in for sure, but you should definitely apply if that's where you're looking to go.

 

[erikreinhart]

thank you everyone! Caltech and MIT are my top choices. This helped alot.

 

[deluks917]

This might be a little off topic, but how's UChicago/NYU/Berkeley's admission process compared to Caltech/MIT? More selective? About equal?

This might be a little off topic, but how's UChicago/NYU/Berkeley's admission process compared to Caltech/MIT? More selective? About equal?

U-chicago is easier to get in but still very hard. Berkeley is not hard to get in for undergrad. NYU is very easy to get in (its grad school is not). I was a real slacker in high school but got a 2280 on the SAT (not especially high) and was admitted to NYU (with a very good scholarship) and Berkeley. From your posts on physics forum I'm sure you will get in.

The exclusivity of the graduate and undergraduate programs at most universities are not the same and may be very different. Since you seem very advanced the quality of the graduate education at your school might actually be more important for you. The following website seems to agree with my experience and those of my friends (I went to a very good high school and new about 25 people who went to IVy-quality schools out of a graduating class of 180). http://www.satscores.us/" .

 

[twofish-quant]

Realistically Caltech incoming class size is about 200 and MIT is 1000. If you didnt do well on AMC that will not help since all those kids that did do well are very likely going to apply to MIT and Caltech as well the kids who did well in Science Fairs and the kids who worked as Research Assitants and the kids who absurdly excelled at some other activity.

On the other hand, admissions can be rather random, and you do have the situation in which admissions committees think to themselves, we've already admitted enough people with 800 math SAT scores, and we want someone that is different. Here is someone that wrote a funny essay or did something different from the other 1000 applications and we should choose him.

One thing that MIT tries very hard to do is to make sure that not everyone that gets admitted is the stereotypical MIT student.

 

[twofish-quant]

would 1 or 2 B's throughout high school hurt your application?

I managed to get in...

 

[TMFKAN64]

Good grades, good test scores, so-so extracurriculars. (The only outstanding thing I see is being an eagle scout, and that is still fairly common.)

There is always a chance of course, but as others have said, apply to other schools as well. You are at best a dark-horse candidate.

 

[mathwonk]

har har har,..."practice!" i.e. isn't this like the old "how do i get to carnegie hall?" joke?

 

[flyingpig]

I don't think AP scores really affect your chances, I think they even said it themselves on the admission site. The SATs are a different story though...

 

[Rebooter]

hello. I want to go to caltech for astrophysics.

GPA: 3.96 (Unweighted)
Course work: 9 IB classes junior year and this coming year. Diploma Candiate. (IB HL Math. IB Chem HL, IB Bio HL, IB physics sl.)

I am testing in 3 IB science classes, for a total of 7 IB tests, which 5 are HL. Also testing AP

AP Calc AB: 3
AP Chem: 3
IB Physics SL: 4

I know those are low, but I am taking college classes to make up for them. MTH251, MTH252, PH211. I am also taking both AP Physics C tests and AP Calc BC end of this year.

ACT: 32 English, 30 Math, 29 Reading, 33 Science. Retaking
SAT Subject tests: 750 Chem, 800 Math II, 720 Physics.

Extracurriculars: AMC (Participent), Math League (state certificate thing), Mid-Valley Regional Math Conference Participent (3 years). Math Help Tutor. NHS. Boy Scouts (Eagle). Avatar (English and Art Magazine.). National Spanish Honor Society.

You have a 1/100 chance at MIT... and maybe a 3/100 chance at Caltech.
AP Calc AB you scored a 3? This is one of the easiest AP tests out of all of them... a 5 should be assumed.

The problem is you have done nothing of consequence until this point (even if your scores are ok... outside of the ACT score of course). When I was accepted to a school of this caliber (5 years ago mind you, and a HYPS) I had founded a charitable organization that raised $100,000 in a short time and used it to reforest a very large area of public land that they were trying to reclaim, gained a huge amount of press over it... I still was turned down by a few schools I applied to (with scores higher than yours on top of this).

 

[bleedblue1234]

No shot at those schools realistically. Look at some other schools.

 

[Rebooter]

No shot at those schools realistically. Look at some other schools.

I don't think he has a real shot at any top 10 schools and toss in Brown, Cornell and Dartmouth as well.
People with much better scores, pedigree, etc were being turned down 5 yrs ago at these places, when I entered school

 

[fluidistic]

I hope you realize that the thread is almost 2 years old, guys. He likely have been rejected/accepted by now.

 

[mathwonk]

well that is a sobering remark. i was just about to offer even more useful cleverness. I bet a dollar to a donut however that he did not go to either of those schools with those scores. In all honesty I cannot even say i hope he did go there. I can only hope he got into a school which is appropriate for his talents as well as his dreams. It is always best to go to a school which is challenging but not overwhelming. If he did get into one of those schools and is flourishing, then more power and congratulations to him, as an exception to our predictions.

 

[twofish-quant]

People with much better scores, pedigree, etc were being turned down 5 yrs ago at these places, when I entered school

I do think that he has a chance of getting in, because there is some serious randomness in the process. His scores aren't seriously lower than mine and I got in.

One other thing is that the admissions committee will scale based on what resources were available to you. If you win international science fair at a school in which everyone else goes to science fair (i.e. Bronx High) that's less impressive than if you do it in an school which is totally dysfunctional and you have to dodge bullets in order to teach yourself algebra.

 

[twofish-quant]

In all honesty I cannot even say i hope he did go there. I can only hope he got into a school which is appropriate for his talents as well as his dreams.

That's hogwash.

One thing that you have to realize (and the people at MIT do realize) is that some people with perfect test scores just fall apart when they get to MIT, and some people with decent but not perfect test schools do great there.

In fact having perfect test scores can seriously hurt you when you get to MIT. One seriously difficult issue that MIT frosh face is that it is traumatic if you've been getting A's all of your life, and suddenly you find yourself struggling at the bottom of the class. People that are "less perfect" usually have an easier time of it, because they are used to failing.

MIT admissions is much. much less concerned that you have perfect test scores, than how you will react in a situation in which you are failing for the first time in your life.

It is always best to go to a school which is challenging but not overwhelming.

Depends on the person. MIT is an overwhelming school. For the first time in my life, I was "average" or even "below average" and I had to work like crazy to just keep my head above water. At MIT, you will feel like a total idiot. They take a firehose and spray it at you to see how much you can absorb. They take you out into the ocean, drop you in and see if you can make it to shore. If you make it back too quickly, they just take you out further and drop you in there.

For me, it was marvelous. For someone else, it could be bad. Maybe really bad. If your identity is based on doing well in school, then MIT is just not the place for you since, everyone struggles there.

And this is something that you just can't tell from test scores. I can tell from the test scores, that he can survive 18.01 and 8.01, but that's I'll I know.

an exception to our predictions.

Who is us?

 

[bcrowell]

U-chicago is easier to get in but still very hard. Berkeley is not hard to get in for undergrad. NYU is very easy to get in (its grad school is not). I was a real slacker in high school but got a 2280 on the SAT (not especially high) and was admitted to NYU (with a very good scholarship) and Berkeley. From your posts on physics forum I'm sure you will get in.

Berkeley is extremely hard to get into these days. I went there as an undergrad (admitted in '82), but it's gotten a lot tougher since then, and I don't know if I would have gotten in today. I know people whose kids have 4.0 GPAs, stellar qualifications in every other way -- and they didn't get into Berkeley.

Anyway, the obvious advice to erikreinhart is simply to apply to five or 10 schools, including some backups.

 

[Rebooter]

Berkeley is extremely hard to get into these days. I went there as an undergrad (admitted in '82), but it's gotten a lot tougher since then, and I don't know if I would have gotten in today. I know people whose kids have 4.0 GPAs, stellar qualifications in every other way -- and they didn't get into Berkeley.

Anyway, the obvious advice to erikreinhart is simply to apply to five or 10 schools, including some backups.

A 4.0 in HS is literally a certification that you are not a lobotomized mental patient.

 

[twofish-quant]

A 4.0 in HS is literally a certification that you are not a lobotomized mental patient.

It could also mean that you care more about grades than you should, and you are going to completely fall apart if you are put in an environment in which a 4.0 is impossible, and you are struggling to just get a C+. It could also mean that you are too much like Lisa Simpson and not enough like Bart.

 

[twofish-quant]

Berkeley is extremely hard to get into these days. I went there as an undergrad (admitted in '82), but it's gotten a lot tougher since then, and I don't know if I would have gotten in today. I know people whose kids have 4.0 GPAs, stellar qualifications in every other way -- and they didn't get into Berkeley.

MIT is the same way. There just aren't enough places for qualified students.

This is why the admissions process is somewhat random. If you just look at GPA's, test scores, and qualifications, you are just going to get one type of student, and it's bad for MIT if everyone ends getting admitted is the stereotypical MIT student. You really do need some people with less good GPA's, test scores, and extracurriculars, as long as they have what I'd call the "MIT spirit." People have different definitions of what the MIT spirit looks like, I'd say look at Bill Murray in the movie Stripes, and I bet he didn't get a 4.0 GPA.

MIT is just too small to admit everyone that it should. If anyone wanted to go to MIT and didn't get in, I'll do what I can to create an "MIT 2.0" where ever they did end up.

 

[mathwonk]

"This is why the admissions process is somewhat random. If you just look at GPA's, test scores, and qualifications, you are just going to get one type of student, and it's bad for MIT if everyone ends getting admitted is the stereotypical MIT student. You really do need some people with less good GPA's, test scores, and extracurriculars, as long as they have what I'd call the "MIT spirit." People have different definitions of what the MIT spirit looks like, I'd say look at Bill Murray in the movie Stripes, and I bet he didn't get a 4.0 GPA.

MIT is just too small to admit everyone that it should. If anyone wanted to go to MIT and didn't get in, I'll do what I can to create an "MIT 2.0" where ever they did end up."

and you think my post was hogwash?

 

[Rebooter]

It could also mean that you care more about grades than you should, and you are going to completely fall apart if you are put in an environment in which a 4.0 is impossible, and you are struggling to just get a C+. It could also mean that you are too much like Lisa Simpson and not enough like Bart.

Or it could mean, like in practically all cases, you're moderately intelligent and are still Bart.
In my case, I skipped everything past lunch my senior year of HS to go dick around most days of the week(which included AP Calculus/AP Physics etc)
Was late to first period 20 something days that year, and still had a 5 on the AB Calc test and straight As.

I don't recall ever doing any HW at all that semester except in Spanish, which I usually did in AP English.
I'm definitely only "moderately" intelligent.

As far as your latter point, sure, I fell apart a tad first semester of college when it set in I was average at my school (average being vastly better than top students at other schools).
I took it in stride.

 

[twofish-quant]

In my case, I skipped everything past lunch my senior year of HS to go dick around most days of the week(which included AP Calculus/AP Physics etc)
Was late to first period 20 something days that year, and still had a 5 on the AB Calc test and straight As.

Which is why freshman year at MIT is something of a shock. Most people that get into MIT find high school easy and can get good grades without a huge amount of work, so it comes as a shock when the fire hose gets turned on, and you get a 50/100 on a test, and turns out that this is only slightly below class average, and the uber-genius in the class got a 70/100.

What I think is a better question to figure out if you'd love or hate MIT is the question "are you bored?"

If you are aceing all of your classes, and you hate the fact that you are aceing the classes, and you'd really prefer somewhere that you end up doing badly if it means learning something new, then MIT will work. If not (and there is no shame in saying that you would prefer to keep aceing your classes), then it won't.

I'm definitely only "moderately" intelligent.

Intelligence turns out to not be that important for a lot of things, including surviving MIT.

 

[twofish-quant]

and you think my post was hogwash?

I have the advantage here that I went to MIT as an undergraduate. While I'm not directly involved in admissions, I do know alumni that have volunteered for the MIT Educational Council who is involved in recruitment and admissions. When I've talked to them, they tell me that its a depressing job, because there are far, far, far more qualified applicants than spaces.

Personally, I'd like to see MIT expand to take in 10,000 or 1 million students rather than the 1000 that get admitted now, but the Cambridge campus is too small. People wonder why MIT puts all of its classes online, and this is why. It's so that you don't have to go through a stupid committee to take 18.01.

If you have better information that contradicts what I'm saying here, let me know.

 

[cwoodall]

Hey there.

I do not go to MIT, but I know some people who do go to MIT and the kids who go there are certainly brilliant and above par, but grades is tangential to their acceptance. You can win every competition have a 5.0 on a 4.0 unweighted scale, get perfect scores on all your SATs, but if you don't express a passion you will have trouble getting in... Well that might be an exaggeration for this case. However, the most important thing is portraying in your essays that you DO stuff... What little projects have you done? Did you randomly decide to make a cross bow one day? Are you working in a lab? How did you get into Half-Life 2 mapping? How did that change over time?

In short, be interesting and it will increase your choices exponentially. Don't be a cookie cutter student, don't write the essay 75% of high school students write, write about something you are passionate about, write it well and enforce that you are interesting. Also, you might be tempted to write about the struggles of IB or your academic program... Try to keep it as personal as possible, this is about you, not every IB/AP student.

Still everyones chances are slim and it is a luck of the draw situation regardless of how smart you are.

 

[bleedblue1234]

Twofish-Quant, have you had a chance to look at a place like college confidential to see what the typical MIT/Caltech/HYP applicant looks like these days? It is pretty much guaranteed he/she has a very high (3.9+) GPA along with a 2200-2300+ SAT score. Even then, these schools reject plenty of perfect scorers every year. Times have changed drastically over the past few years. MIT now admits just under 10% of applicants, which has dropped significantly from what it was even 10 years ago. The game has gotten tougher and tougher.

I have stats that should put me in the "top 1%" of test takers and I go to a fantastic high school, but I didn't even bother applying to the top ivies / MIT. The only people I know who got in had rather rediculous GPAs/SATs/extracurriculars. Why would they pass on the guy with a 4.0 / 2400 / great extracurriculers for someone with a 3.8 / 2100 / ok extracurriculars...

They draw the bar somewhere, and the bar keeps rising, although it probably has "topped out." They don't just admit the guy with worse scores because he adds "diversity." Unless he brings someone else outstanding, he won't get admitted.

 

[Skrew]

Can anyone provide evidence that the average student would get a better education at one of these "top tier" colleges verses state?

Besides lack of certain research opportunities I'm not seeing what puts these colleges above others in terms of educational quality.

 

[flemmyd]

Twofish-Quant, have you had a chance to look at a place like college confidential to see what the typical MIT/Caltech/HYP applicant looks like these days? It is pretty much guaranteed he/she has a very high (3.9+) GPA along with a 2200-2300+ SAT score. Even then, these schools reject plenty of perfect scorers every year. Times have changed drastically over the past few years. MIT now admits just under 10% of applicants, which has dropped significantly from what it was even 10 years ago. The game has gotten tougher and tougher.

I'm going to venture out and say that the kind of people who hang out/post their stats on college confidential aren't necessarily the only type of people who get into top schools like MIT/Harvard/etc. There are a lot of high achieving students there and there are bound to be plenty of smart kids who get in (and way more who don't).

 

[mathwonk]

twofish, i may have less information than you about MIT admissions. I have friends on the faculty there but did not go there myself, and my opinions are based on my own experiences elsewhere. On that basis i thought it unlikely that a student with 3's on his AP exams would either find admission or success at MIT. Do you have other information? E.g. did you gain admission to MIT with such scores?

I gather that you found MIT very challenging but also very fulfilling. In my estimation that means you did not find it "overwhelming", at least by my interpretation of that word. In my experience although there are tenacious people like yourself who respond well to conditions they find almost overwhelming at first, more are not. Thus as an advisor for over 30 years, I have learned to be conservative with my advice to the typical student. Still I am always happy to learn of cases like your own where a student rises above his initial impression.

I am especially happy to know that you took away from your experience at MIT an inspiration of what a top school can offer. I take that as a compliment to your stamina and ability, and also to the skill of the professors there.

 

[mathwonk]

to skrew, i feel it is unwise for an average student to go to a top tier school, since he/she is unlikely to arrive there with the same advantages as the students coming from elite schools. every talented student can eventually achieve outstanding success, but more easily if he or she is trained at a rate commensurate with their background. in the end it does not matter whether a student takes 10 or 20 years years to flower, as success at 30 or 40 years of age is essentially the same.

My opinions are of course not necessarily correct, but they are my best assessment, after a long career of advisement, teaching, and research.

 

[twofish-quant]

On that basis i thought it unlikely that a student with 3's on his AP exams would either find admission or success at MIT. Do you have other information?

I personally know people who have gotten into MIT with 3's on the AP. AP exams are optional so for MIT admission purposes it's better to have gotten a 3 on the AP than to not have taken the tests at all.

Thus as an advisor for over 30 years, I have learned to be conservative with my advice to the typical student.

I make it a policy to try to never give advice. I try to give information. MIT can be a *AWFUL* school for the wrong student, and whether you will fit in or not has very little to do with your test scores.

 

[twofish-quant]

i feel it is unwise for an average student to go to a top tier school, since he/she is unlikely to arrive there with the same advantages as the students coming from elite schools.

But for some of us that's a good thing.

Also MIT is considerably more supportive in some ways than your average state public university. If you go to your typical state school and you fail freshman physics, then you are out of the game, and state schools often have weed out classes to get rid of students.

Since MIT has already done the weed out at the admissions level, there's no pressure to get rid of students, so if you fail freshman physics, then it's not recorded on your transcript, and you have a second bite of the apple.

Every talented student can eventually achieve outstanding success, but more easily if he or she is trained at a rate commensurate with their background.

MIT doesn't have that philosophy. They dunk you into the water and see how much sticks. Also, MIT is to a large extent student directed. The classes themselves are decent, but going to MIT for the quality of the classes is like going to the Grand Canyon for the fine dining or to NYC for the peace and quiet.

I hate easy. I get bored by easy. I want hard.

 

[twofish-quant]

However, the most important thing is portraying in your essays that you DO stuff... What little projects have you done? Did you randomly decide to make a cross bow one day? Are you working in a lab? How did you get into Half-Life 2 mapping? How did that change over time?

There is a reason for this. What everyone is afraid of is that you'll admit someone with perfect scores, and midway freshman year, they find out that it is impossible for them to get top scores and they are struggle to barely pass. Their parents are a thousand miles away, they may not have the social skills to make friends at the institute, and things just get worse and worse until something really, really bad happens.

Before they toss you into the ocean, they want to make sure that you won't drown. If you randomly decide to make a cross bow, then when everything goes totally bad freshman year (and this happens to everyone), you go out with your friends and build a trebuchet that shoots watermelons toward East Campus.

Still everyones chances are slim and it is a luck of the draw situation regardless of how smart you are.

Yup. That's why there is Open Courseware and the Enterprise Forums exist.

 

[twofish-quant]

Can anyone provide evidence that the average student would get a better education at one of these "top tier" colleges verses state?

The problem with the question is that there is no average student. "Top tier" colleges are not the same. "State universities" are not the same. Also you get into the question of what a "better education" is. One thing that happens when you go to college is that it changes your standards for "better."

When I was thinking about what university to go to, I went to a presentation by a dean at the University of Florida in which he was talking about the honors program. I mentioned that I wanted to study both physics and writing, and he thought I was joking. I crossed UF off my list.

Besides lack of certain research opportunities I'm not seeing what puts these colleges above others in terms of educational quality.

I can think of a number of things...

a) I never had a multiple choice test at MIT. Every test that I ever took was hand graded with a lot of partial credit and notes explaining what I did wrong. What this means is that when you have the tests for intro calculus graded you have the entire math department in a room grading tests.
b) No weed out classes and large curves. Most classes in physics were A/B centered, which meant that you were likely to end up with a decent grade if you did the work.
c) Students were on the major faculty committees and had real input into how the university was run.
d) Meeting people that were pretty serious about physics and math
e) e-mail and internet access. That isn't a big thing in 2011, but I went to MIT in 1987, when it was a really original idea to give students e-mail and internet access. I think I was one of the first people in the world to use this new gizmo called the WWW in 1991.

The thing about these things is that none of them are magic, and you could replicate it without too much trouble outside of MIT. Also everything that you find at MIT will likely find its way to the rest of the world, but it's cool to see something five years before everyone else does.

 

[twofish-quant]

just to confuse this discussion with facts... :-) :-) :-)

http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/admissions_statistics/index.shtml

 

[cwoodall]

I personally go to Boston University, which is right across the river (hence why I know my fair share of MIT kids). At first it seemed daunting to me, since I am in engineering, to have them so close. In the end I feel pretty luck because I can benefit from a lot of the things MIT does... For example, most guest lectures, the awesome electronic music concerts, EC, hackathons, knowing awesome people...

Also, a lot of these things called hackerspaces are showing up around different schools. BU has one called BUILDS, which focuses on Engineering and Comp Sci. We have a lot of real world electronics projects, as well as, code projects. Brown has one that is pretty good, so does North Eastern... I don't know about Harvard or Boston College... Hackerspaces are a great way to bring a certain aspect of MIT "lets just build it" attitude to any other school, especially if the club gets college funding.

One warning about MIT, from my observations: it has a very strong and unique culture, which is not always what you might think from the "type of kid" that would go to MIT. If you get accepted, you really need to inspect dorm cultures and make sure you will enjoy the culture there, because if you don't you will be miserable.