Can Matter Become More Charged as Bosons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of photons as bosons, their behavior in laser beams, and the concept of distance between photons in a ray of light. Participants explore the implications of bosonic properties on photon interactions and raise questions about the potential for matter to become "bosonized" similar to ionization.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that photons, being bosons, can occupy the same state and overlap without any distance between them.
  • Others discuss the dispersion of laser light, attributing it to the wave nature of photons rather than interactions between them.
  • A participant raises a question about the distance between photons in a laser beam and suggests that it could be calculated based on specific parameters of the beam.
  • Another participant questions the concept of "bosonized" matter, drawing a parallel to ionization and suggesting a potential for increased charge.
  • Some participants assert that photons can exist in identical states of polarization and momentum, reinforcing the idea of their overlapping nature.
  • A later reply mentions that while photons can overlap, they do not interact significantly except through gravity.
  • One participant suggests that a strong enough beam could create a scenario where two photons appear as one due to complete overlap.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the bosonic nature of photons and their ability to overlap without distance. However, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the concept of "bosonized" matter and the implications of photon distances in practical scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific beam parameters for calculating photon distances and the ambiguity surrounding the concept of "bosonized" matter, which lacks a clear definition in the discussion.

Chelle12
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What is the distance between two photons in a ray of light?
 
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Photons are bosons, which means that you can have as many photons in the same state as you want. This means that an arbitrary number of photons can be in the exact same place, moving in the exact same direction with the same polarization.

In a laser, we try stack as many photons on top of each other in as small a space as we can. The density of photons that we get depends mostly on the technical limitations of the laser.
 
LukeD said:
Photons are bosons, which means that you can have as many photons in the same state as you want. This means that an arbitrary number of photons can be in the exact same place, moving in the exact same direction with the same polarization.

In a laser, we try stack as many photons on top of each other in as small a space as we can. The density of photons that we get depends mostly on the technical limitations of the laser.

ok, when light travels in a ray of light, isn't there some distance between them, otherwise I guess it wouldn't be quanta. Or when a laser is beamed towards the moon for measurement, the light disparses, so distance would increase. In an experiment done with a single photon counting CCD camera, the distance between the photons was 2km (http://ophelia.princeton.edu/~page/single_photon.html"). Is it wave related?
 
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A laser disperses because of the motion of a single photon* not because photons bump into each other. Photons can pass right through each other and lie on top of each other without feeling each other at all (they only interact through gravity as far as we can tell)

* a laser disperses because a single photon is a wave... it also has a definite position - those are very vague statements, do not ponder them for too long, they will drive you mad unless you learn more about them
 
LukeD said:
* a laser disperses because a single photon is a wave... it also has a definite position

I wasn't suggesting they would bump into each other. I just wanted to have an idea what the distance, definite positions, between these single waves are in a normal ray of light or a laser beam. Thus when light "travels", and before the distances get bigger when they disperse.
 
The point LukeD is trying to make, is that if you have a strong enough beam e.g. laser light, there is zero distance between them - they overlap. You can in principle even have what "looks" like a single photon, that actually is 2 photons overlapping completely - just twice as "strong".
 
Chelle12 said:
isn't there some distance between them, otherwise I guess it wouldn't be quanta
Again, as LukeD said they are bosons so not only can there be 0 distance between them they can also be in otherwise completely identical states of polarization momentum etc.
 
DaleSpam said:
they are bosons so not only can there be 0 distance between them they can also be in otherwise completely identical states of polarization momentum etc.

Is there such a thing as "bosonized", like in the sense of "ionized", where matter can become more charged?
 
Getting back to your original question, it's possible to find a number that would be the distance between photons, if photons really were pointlike objects traveling along the beam, like a stream of tiny bullets. But you need some information about the beam to start with. Let's say for example that:

1. The beam has a power of 5.0 milliwatts (typical for a handheld laser pointer).

2. The beam's cross-section is circular, with a radius of 1.0 millimeter.

3. The light has a wavelength of 670 nanometers.

From the first two, you can calculate the energy density (joules per cubic meter) inside the beam. From the third, you can calculate the energy (joules) per photon. Using these two numbers, you can find the average distance between photons.
 
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  • #10
Chelle12 said:
Is there such a thing as "bosonized", like in the sense of "ionized", where matter can become more charged?
Not really. Although you can annihilate matter with antimatter and turn it into light and therefore bosons.
 

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