Can Modulating Light Unlock the Secrets of Atomic Visibility?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential of modulating light to achieve atomic visibility, exploring the limitations of current imaging technologies and the implications of using higher frequency light. Participants examine theoretical and practical aspects of light modulation, electron microscopy, and the challenges posed by high-energy photons in imaging at atomic scales.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether modulating light to higher frequencies could allow for deeper visibility into atomic structures, suggesting that current wavelengths are too large.
  • Another participant explains that increasing light frequency requires energy input and discusses methods like nonlinear optics and high-powered lasers for generating shorter wavelengths.
  • Concerns are raised about the high energy associated with very short wavelengths, such as 0.5 Angstrom, potentially damaging the atomic structures being observed.
  • Participants mention alternative imaging methods, including near-field techniques and cryo-electron microscopy, which allow for non-destructive imaging of atoms.
  • A reference is made to Swedish scientists filming an electron using attosecond pulses, highlighting advancements in the field.
  • One participant expresses interest in the implications of high-energy photons on imaging and seeks further clarification on this concept in relation to quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility and implications of using higher frequency light for atomic visibility. While some acknowledge the advancements in imaging technology, others highlight the unresolved challenges posed by high-energy photons. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the effectiveness of attosecond pulses in mitigating these issues.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to the energy levels required for high-frequency light and the potential for damaging the subjects of observation. There is also a mention of unresolved mathematical steps and the dependence on specific definitions in quantum mechanics.

_Mayday_
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I am aware that the reason we cannot see things around the size of atoms is due to the fact that the wavelength of light is too great. My question is why can you not modulate light, as you do with FM radios, to a higher frequency and therefore a shorter wavelength? Would that not enable you to at least see deeper into the realms of the unknown. I know that the wavelength of visual light is far to great to get anywhere near to an atom, but has this idea of modulation ever come to mind?

This probably sounds crazy, but I hope people can see some thought behind it.

_Mayday_
 
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Hence the development of electron microscopy.

Frequency is related to energy- you can'tincrease the frequency without putting energy into the system. It's possible to perform frequency upconversion using nonlinear optics, and very high harmonics can be generated by hitting a plasma with a high-powered laser (wavelengths around 6 nm, IIRC- some of the next generation lithography sources). Synchotron radiation is another method, and the sources can be quite bright.

But you want to go further: say 0.5 Angstrom wavelength. One problem is that the energy is so high, it messes up the thing you are looking at. X-rays ionize atoms, and you want energies WAY in excess of x-rays.

So, people use alternate methods from far-field imaging and the diffraction limits: near field methods (scanning, TIRF, etc) is a big one. Use of atom-sized probes (Atomic force and related) is another.

The state-of-the-art imaging technology is cryo-electron microscopy, AFAIK. Atoms can be imaged in a non-destructive way.
 
Andy Resnick said:
Hence the development of electron microscopy.

Frequency is related to energy- you can'tincrease the frequency without putting energy into the system. It's possible to perform frequency upconversion using nonlinear optics, and very high harmonics can be generated by hitting a plasma with a high-powered laser (wavelengths around 6 nm, IIRC- some of the next generation lithography sources). Synchotron radiation is another method, and the sources can be quite bright.

But you want to go further: say 0.5 Angstrom wavelength. One problem is that the energy is so high, it messes up the thing you are looking at. X-rays ionize atoms, and you want energies WAY in excess of x-rays.

So, people use alternate methods from far-field imaging and the diffraction limits: near field methods (scanning, TIRF, etc) is a big one. Use of atom-sized probes (Atomic force and related) is another.

The state-of-the-art imaging technology is cryo-electron microscopy, AFAIK. Atoms can be imaged in a non-destructive way.


I hate it how my amazing ideas always come a few decades late! I had an idea of trains on magnets, but that was already taken!

Cheers for all the information. I liked the bit about the energy, and I am sure I have heard somewhere else I think it was something to do with quantum mechanics and finding the position and something else of a fermion.

_Mayday_
 
Swedish scientists has actually filmed an electron using " a robust and flexible setup for the generation, characterization and compression of attosecond pulses. "
http ://www .atto . fysik . lth.se/
 
"But you want to go further: say 0.5 Angstrom wavelength. One problem is that the energy is so high, it messes up the thing you are looking at."

That defines the problem.

Whether attosecond photon pulses reduces the problem remains to be seen, but I applaud the effort.
 
Here is the link Yor_on posted.

http://www.atto.fysik.lth.se/

Can someone expand on the idea of the energy being so high it messes up the reading. I understand the basic concept, but I have a feeling I have read about something related to this in Quantum mechanics. Any ideas?

Thanks for all your help though!
 
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