If you raise the electron to other higher shell states, can it affect light transmission?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential effects of raising electrons to higher energy shell states on light transmission through solid black opaque objects. Participants explore the relationship between electron energy levels and the opacity of materials, particularly in the context of making brain tissue less opaque.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that raising electrons to higher energy states with X-rays could alter the opacity of a solid black object, potentially allowing for some light transmission.
  • Another participant questions the feasibility of raising electrons in billions of atoms and suggests that this might lead to plasma formation.
  • Concerns are raised about the speculative nature of the original proposal, with a participant stating that it is not productive to think one can turn an opaque object transparent by shining light on it.
  • Electromagnetically induced transparency is mentioned as a special case where transparency can be achieved, but it is noted that this does not apply to brain tissue.
  • One participant expresses a desire to achieve at least 20% transparency in a couple of microns of tissue, likening it to looking through murky water.
  • Another participant discusses the interaction of X-rays and red light with electrons, questioning whether red light can excite electrons already in higher energy states.
  • There are assertions that the current level of education of one participant may not be sufficient to understand the complexities involved in the proposed experiments.
  • Keywords such as "holeburning spectroscopy" and "optical pumping" are introduced, with a reference to an undergraduate experiment involving rubidium gas becoming transparent.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential damage to brain tissue if attempts are made to alter its opacity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of making opaque materials transparent through the proposed methods. There is no consensus on whether the original idea can be realized, and some participants emphasize the need for more education to understand the underlying physics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the energy requirements for raising electrons in multiple atoms and the implications of altering the molecular structure of brain tissue.

Nicholas Lee
Messages
27
Reaction score
1
icon7.gif
If you raise the electron to other higher shell states, can light transmission throug
-h a SOLID BLACK opaque object.
Modified the original question because it was unclear.
I won't repeat the same question over, and over, but what I have said in previous questions may get repeated in the thread.
Its all relative to what I am trying to do, so I hope the question does not get deleted, there is meaning to all the questions I ask, its how I learn.
So the energy levels of EM waves increase asfrom radio to X-rays, to gamma waves.
If put the electron in the highest shell, or a shell second to the highest, then shine a wavelength of light, that has the lowest wavelength, which is red light.
So you shine this light at the when it is in its higher energy states, could this make electrons in something solid, and black be like glass electrons.
So that these electrons do not get exited by this low wavelegth light, and could light pass through, and transmission through a SOLID BLACK object, and make it become a little transparent like 20% transparent, or more. Could the opacity of a material to one band of EM radiation (light) could be altered by raising the shell level of the electron in the material with another band of EM radiation (X rays)?
By raising the electrons in the atoms to higher energy bands (with the X rays), so that they will no longer be in energy bands amenable to absorption of light wavelengths, the opacity of the material to light waves might be altered.
Could this be done to make light transmission better through a SOLID BLACK object.
To make the object 20% transparent.
Its all about the energy of electrons, not the amount of electrons in a atom, and it does not make a difference if the material is amorphous.
I am studying neuroscience, and am trying to figure out ways to make brain tissue less opaque, if at all possible.
Think of it as looking through murky water, but still being able to see through the water.
Thats what I want to do with the tissue.
Thank you for your help, anything helps, even a few words.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Do you have an inkling as to how much energy it takes to raise electrons in billions of atoms? You are certain to have plasma I would think...
 
Old thread for reference

You are wildly speculating far away from your knowledge. This is not productive.
You cannot turn an opaque object transparent by shining light on it.

There are extremely special cases where you can make objects more transparent to extremely narrow bands of wavelengths. This is called electromagnetically induced transparency.
This does not work for brains. What do you want to do? There are wavelengths that have some reasonable range in brains.
 
Great, thank you for your answer, your right that my knowledge is not that great on the subject.
What I am trying to do us to see if a couple of microns of tissue can become at least 20% transparent. kind of like looking through murkey water. If it is possible to do.
I keep thinking of new ways to try to do it , and it may come accress as the same thread, but its not exactly the same every time.
Thank you for your help.
mfb said:
Old thread for reference

You are wildly speculating far away from your knowledge. This is not productive.
You cannot turn an opaque object transparent by shining light on it.

There are extremely special cases where you can make objects more transparent to extremely narrow bands of wavelengths. This is called electromagnetically induced transparency.
This does not work for brains. What do you want to do? There are wavelengths that have some reasonable range in brains.
 
A couple of microns? That should let a large fraction of light through. With a flashlight you can even see red light pass through your fingers, about 1 centimeter.
 
exite the electron.
Can you tell me what would be the outcome of this light experiment.
So you mix X-rays with red light, the X-rays excite the electron to a higher shell level 2, or 3.
Then the red light with the shortest wavelength, when it hits the electron as the electron is in shell 2, or 3 would the electron get excited, or not by the red light.
The electron is only going to be in shell 2, and 3 for a for a very short time, but maybe the red light does not have the energy to excite the electron while it is in shell 2, and 3.
Remember the red light, and X-rays are mixed together as a single wave, or more X-rays hit electrons first, then milliseconds later the red light hits the electron, whatever works best for the light to travel through a opaque SOLID material, kind of like glass.
The effect I want to get is to make the electron not absorb light, for light to pass through, and make a object a little bit translucent, by 20%.
Similar to glass, how electrons do not get excited by light.
Thank you for your help, anything helps even a few wo
 
Nicholas Lee said:
The effect I want to get is to make the electron not absorb light, for light to pass through, and make a object a little bit translucent, by 20%.

It is not possible to do this with your current level of education. You would need to go through years of schooling to be able to understand physics sufficiently to even begin to try to do something like this.
 
I agree need more scooliing, but do you think it CAN be done.
Drakkith said:
It is not possible to do this with your current level of education. You would need to go through years of schooling to be able to understand physics sufficiently to even begin to try to do something like this.
 
The keyword holeburning spectroscopy also comes to my mind.
 
  • #10
If you had simply asked the question and not said what you wanted it for, I would simply answer, yes. Look up optical pumping. There's a common undergraduate lab experiment where you shine light on rubidium gas and it becomes transparent.

But then you mention stuff about making brain tissue transparent. Why would you want to do that? You would definitely do extreme damage to the brain tissue molecular structure. You'd better just forget about it.
 
  • #11
Thread locked.
 

Similar threads

High School Could mixing light wavelengths effect absorption, and emissi
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Graduate Photons through transparent materials, what's going on?
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
8K
High School Can heating/cooling a material effect absorption, and transmission
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Graduate Whats the difference in glass electrons, and solid irons
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Graduate Does anybody know the energy shells eV for glass, and solid carbon?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
High School Why does light transmit through glass/diamond, but not solid
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Undergrad What's happening in glass with the electrons, for light to travel through it?
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Undergrad In the absorption, and emission spectra, what happens to some
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
High School In glass, the elements that make it up, like silicon, and so
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Undergrad Radiative and Nonradiative Transitions
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K