Can Newton's Theory of Gravity Explain Planetary Elliptical Orbits?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the application of Newton's theory of gravity to explain the nature of planetary orbits, specifically whether they must be elliptical. Participants explore the complexity of deriving these orbits compared to simpler circular models and consider alternative orbital shapes.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that using Newton's theory to show that planetary orbits must be elliptical is not tremendously difficult, but more complex than assuming circular orbits.
  • Others mention that orbits can also be parabolic or hyperbolic, depending on the escape velocity of the planet, and that deriving allowed orbits from Lagrange's equations may require significant effort unless the solution is already known.
  • A participant proposes an approach using the equation of an ellipse and relates it to a unit sphere, indicating that this satisfies Newton's equation of gravity.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the trajectory of an object involves both position and velocity, suggesting that the analysis of orbits is more nuanced than simply plotting points.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the complexity of deriving elliptical orbits from Newton's theory, with no consensus on whether it is straightforward or requires significant effort. Additionally, there is acknowledgment of multiple possible orbital shapes, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the initial conditions and definitions of orbits may be implicit in the discussion, and the mathematical steps involved in deriving the orbits are not fully resolved.

kent davidge
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Is it difficult to use Newton's theory of gravity for showing that planet's orbits must be elliptical?
 
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Not tremendously difficult, but not nearly as simple as assuming circular orbits. The mechanics book by Kleppner and Kolenkow has a good derivation of this.
 
They can also be parabolic or hyperbolic, if the planet has a sufficient escape velocity. Finding the allowed orbits from Lagrange's equations of motion may require some work, unless you already know the solution (in which case you can test it by substitution).
 
I imagined the following approach. The equation of an ellipse is ##x^2/a^2 + y^2/b^2 = 1##. If we define ##\bar{x} = x / a, \bar{y} = y / b## we have ##\bar{x}^2+ \bar{y}^2 = 1## which is the equation of a unit sphere.

Of course that satisfy Newton's equation of gravity and so do ##x^2 / a^2## and ##y^2 / b^2##.
 
The trajectory of an object is not just a set of points, like a circle on the plane. The object has both a position and velocity at every instant.
 
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