Can someone explain this derivation?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the complexities of deriving motion equations in a tripod system under load, specifically addressing the geometry involved. Participants clarify the relationship between potential energy in springs and the application of the cosine rule versus Pythagorean theorem. The confusion arises from interpreting the lengths of the tripod's legs and their displacement under load, with emphasis on the correct geometric principles. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the importance of understanding the cosine rule in non-right angled triangles for accurate derivation.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of basic physics concepts, particularly potential energy in spring systems.
  • Familiarity with geometric principles, specifically the cosine rule and Pythagorean theorem.
  • Knowledge of dynamics and motion derivations relevant to tripod structures.
  • Ability to interpret diagrams and geometric relationships in physics problems.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the cosine rule and its applications in non-right angled triangles.
  • Explore potential energy calculations in systems with springs in parallel.
  • Review dynamics principles related to motion and forces in tripod structures.
  • Practice deriving equations of motion using various geometric interpretations.
USEFUL FOR

Students in physics or engineering courses, particularly those studying dynamics and motion derivations, as well as educators seeking to clarify geometric principles in physical systems.

whitejac
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Homework Statement


I've been looking at examples of motion derivations for my class, and it's honestly just very confusing. I heard Dynamics should prep you for this but I must have had a very poor course because we never had to understand geometry and physics to this degree...
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Screenshot_2016-09-19-12-06-42.png
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Homework Equations


Equations are listed

The Attempt at a Solution


I understand parts, and parts confuse me greatly. The thing that most confuses me is why they chose to relate side BC as (l-xs). That to me implies that the tripod is almost completely spread out flat because I cannot see how the net displacement is of any noticeable size...
I understand the relarionship between potential energy being .5 (keqx2 = 1.5kxs2 that is a relationship between springs in series, and it is saying that the resulting stiffness times the vertical displacement after mass is added is equal to the sum of individuals displaced... equally?

The real problem is in the third photo where they say the triangle's geometry related side BC to the other 2 sides. This looks like textbook pythagorean's theorem but they use 2LXCos(a) and I don't understand why...
 
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whitejac said:
side BC as (l-xs).
Each leg is shortened by xs under the load, so its new length is l-xs. This is not related to how squat the tripod is, it is true generally.
whitejac said:
that is a relationship between springs in series,
Not specifically, indeed these springs are in parallel. It is merely saying that the total PE is the sum of the PEs in the three springs.
whitejac said:
This looks like textbook pythagorean's theorem
Pythagoras' theorem only applies to right angled triangle. This is using a generalisation of it known as the cosine rule.

Edit: corrected expression in first line.
 
Last edited:
haruspex said:
Each leg is shortened by xs under the load, so its new length is x-ls. This is not related to how squat the tripod is, it is true generally.
Wouldn't that be a description of point AC then? I thought line BC was designating the horizontal displacement of point B, ie, where the tripod touches te ground with respect to its close position along the vertical axis. That would make sense to be described as it's original length minus the displacement (compression).

haruspex said:
Pythagoras' theorem only applies to right angled triangle. This is using a generalisation of it known as the cosine rule.

Wouldn't this be a case of 3 right triangles each sharing a vertical side? The problem states the legs are fixed equidistant from each other because they're all using same value for α, at least that's how I interpreted it from te image and the question. If that's not the case. Then I can easily see where I made a mistake in not using the law of cosines (which I'd forgotten because I was so set on a right triangle situation)
 
whitejac said:
thought line BC was designating the horizontal displacement of point B, ie, where the tripod touches te ground
You are misreading the perspective. It is a simple side view. The point A is the unloaded position of the top of the tripod, point B is its position under load. It is not a point on the ground. Consequently, CBA is not a right angle.
 
Ah yes. I was just typing that ah-ha! Moment. I was misinterpreting the point B.

Thank you for that! There are so many ways to describe a situation.. This is something I'm struggling with and striving to get some exposure to because it really makes deriving/applying formulas simpler.
 

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