Can the LHC Detect Gravitons and Reveal New Physics?

[scupydog]

Does anyone know if the LHC could detect the graviton thx

 

[Wallace]

From my understanding of the LHC there is no expectation to find a graviton particle, since there is no solid basis for the existence of such a particle and no knowledge of what kind of mass it might have if it exists. Of course a good proportion of the particles that have been found already were found unexpectedly and the LHC will probe regions of the particle parameter space previously unseen so there is always the possibility that something like this might turn up.

 

[scupydog]

Thank you wallace I can't wait to see what they will find.

 

[Wallace]

I'm sure you're not alone there!

 

[wolram]

I may be wrong, but surly gravitons would be very sparse, what would be the chances of capturing one?

 

[wolram]

Found this,

4) calculate graviton density constant d

d=E^2/Gh^2
8.2089591 x 10^95 kg/m^3 = (2.4048041 x 10^19 kg^2-m^4/s^4)/
(6.6723641 x 10^-11 m^3/kg-s^2)(4.3904787 x 10^-67 kg^2-m^4/s^2)
8.2089591 x 10^95 kg/m^3 = 8.2089591 x 10^95 kg/m^3
[rsu 3.9 x 10^-8]

I have no idea.

 

[scupydog]

8.2089591 x 10^95 kg/m^3

wow that's dense, or do you mean 8.2089591 x 10 (to the minus) 95 kg/m3

 

[wolram]

8.2089591 x 10^95 kg/m^3

wow that's dense, or do you mean 8.2089591 x 10 (to the minus) 95 kg/m3

That was why i said i have no idea, i am sure you are right, as i am sure gravitons would be (relatively) sparse.

 

[wolram]

Is the quantity of gravitons increasing, well if you think about it every gravitational inter action must produce gravitons, and in the final analysis there will only be gravitons, and as
gravity gravitates________________.

There would be no way for any thing to bounce, it would be the end.

 

[H.M. Murdock]

Here there is an article about some researches about gravitomagnetism that could bring some light to the issue of the graviton and his mass.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19225771.800

de Matos and Tajmar,Intrigued by this puzzle, they began to dig around the theory of superconductors looking for clues. They found one in a 1997 paper by John Argyris and Corneliu Ciubotariu of the University of Stuttgart in Germany. Argyris proposed that the hypothesised gravity particle, the graviton, might have mass, rather than being massless as traditional theories of quantum gravity had assumed.

Argyris's idea piqued de Matos and Tajmar's interest because of the parallel with the normally massless photon, which inside a superconductor develops a mass when the temperature drops below the critical temperature and the substance becomes superconducting. Tajmar and de Matos wondered what would happen if the gravitons inside a superconductor behaved like photons and gained mass as well.

Their calculations showed that the more massive the graviton becomes in a superconductor, the stronger the gravitomagnetic field becomes when the material's rotation speeds up. In turn, that should increase the magnetic field by altering the movement of the Cooper pairs. Could that explain Tate's measurement? To fit her findings, de Matos and Tajmar found they had to set the graviton mass to be 10-54 kilograms (Physica C, vol 432, p 167). By comparison, an electron's mass is about 10-30 kilograms. Although that makes the graviton sound like a lightweight, it would give superconductors a gravitomagnetic force 17 orders of magnitude greater than that produced by normal matter.

At that level, they realized, it should be possible to measure the field in a laboratory. So they designed an experiment to test the idea, and built it with funding from the US air force and the European Space Agency. Last year Tajmar's team began to look for evidence of their extraordinary prediction - not really expecting to find it. They set a ring of superconducting niobium spinning, and positioned accelerometers around the ring. Any gravitomagnetic field produced by the spinning superconductor should tug on these sensors.

Initially, they ran tests at room temperature, where niobium is not superconducting, and saw no anomalous readings. That was expected, consistent with the immeasurably tiny field predicted by general relativity. Then as they dropped the temperature, Cooper pairs formed in the niobium and it lost its electrical resistance. Suddenly the accelerometers produced a signal. It was exactly as they hoped: as soon as the niobium became superconducting, the instruments appeared to feel a strong gravitomagnetic field pulling on them

 

[wolram]

Photons develop mass??

 

[H.M. Murdock]

Photons develop mass??

it seems more as science fiction, it is extremely weird and heretical, but it is just an hypotesis if proven true (which is very unlikely) the standar model would have to be rewriten.

De Matos counters that the gravitons only gain mass and enhance the gravitomagnetic effect inside superconductors, which in the universe would only occur in certain highly compressed dead stars called neutron stars. "Some models suggest that neutron stars have a superconducting layer inside them. This would lead to enhanced gravitomagnetism, but at the moment the observational effects are not clear because no one has yet done the calculation," he says.

More fundamentally, Overduin points out that introducing massive gravitons into physics could cause more problems than it solves. "A massive graviton would mean that you had to rewrite the entire standard model of particle physics," he says.

Tajmar agrees that it is no trivial thing to do. He points out that other theorists have proposed that massive gravitons could explain why the expansion of the universe is accelerating. If confirmed, their discovery would fundamentally change the way we think about gravity. It would mean that superconductors generate gravitational effects differently from normal matter, which would in turn be an unambiguous pointer towards some quantum theory of gravity, because until now only an object's total mass has been assumed to determine its gravitational field. If Tajmar and his collaborators are right, the arrangement of particles inside a superconductor also matters.

Such a departure from mainstream theory does not impress Overduin. "A massive graviton gives you huge problems. I wouldn't bet on this work as a breakthrough," he says.

The best hope for Tajmar and de Matos is that another team will reproduce their experiment and confirm the anomalous gravitomagnetic signal. According to Tajmar, several teams have pledged to recreate the experiments to refute or verify the puzzling signals, but he won't reveal the identities of these teams for fear of putting them under undue pressure. "I am very happy with their interest. It shows that others take us seriously and are willing to spend time on this."

The results could be out in a year or so. If they are positive, it puts the technology of science fiction on the horizon. Levitating cars, zero-g playgrounds, tractor beams to pull objects towards you, glassless windows that use repulsive fields to prevent things passing through. Let your imagination run riot: a gravitomagnetic device that works by changing the acceleration and orientation of a superconductor would be the basis for a general-purpose force field.

The suggestion that gravitomagnetism might one day form the basis of some new technology evokes a quick reaction from Everitt: "Absolutely, unquestionably no!" Then, after a pause, he adds, "But I suppose Simon Newcomb was just as certain in 1900 when he said that humans would never build a heavier-than-air flying machine."