Can Torque Explain the Motion of an Ideal Pendulum?

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    Mathematical Pendulum
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether the motion of an ideal pendulum can be explained using the concept of torque. It explores both theoretical and mathematical aspects of pendulum motion, including the effects of gravitational torque and energy conservation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the ideal pendulum can indeed be explained using torque, referencing the gravitational torque formula.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical derivation involving torque and angular acceleration, leading to the equation \(\ddot{\theta} = (g/L)\theta\) under the small angle approximation.
  • A further contribution discusses the case when the angle is not small, presenting the equation \(\ddot{\theta} = -\frac{g}{L} \sin(\theta)\) and deriving a conserved quantity related to energy conservation.
  • Participants mention the conversion of gravitational potential energy (GPE) to kinetic energy (KE) as a key aspect of the pendulum's motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There appears to be a general agreement on the applicability of torque in explaining the pendulum's motion, but the discussion includes varying approaches and mathematical formulations, indicating that multiple perspectives are present.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions such as the massless string and the small angle approximation, which may limit the applicability of certain claims. Additionally, the transition from torque to energy conservation is not fully resolved in terms of its implications for different scenarios.

zezima1
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Can the ideal pendulum, i.e. massless string etc., be explained using torque?
 
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Yes - that's the usual way of doing it.
Welcome to PF :)
 
Gravitational torque about top of string = Force x perpendicular distance = mgL sin θ in which L is string length and θ is angle of string to vertical.

Using G = I [itex]\ddot{θ}[/itex],

I [itex]\ddot{θ}[/itex] = mgL sin θ

But I = mL[itex]^{2}[/itex] and provided θ<< 1 rad, sin θ = θ

So mL[itex]^{2}[/itex][itex]\ddot{θ}[/itex]= mgL θ

That is [itex]\ddot{θ}[/itex] = (g/L)θ
 
... solve for a function of time, or parameterize by position and momentum - yeah.
 
Even when the angle is not small, (and for simplicity, I'll assume it is a point mass on the end of a rigid rod of negligible mass), we have:
[tex]\ddot{\theta} = - \frac{g}{L} sin(\theta)[/tex]
Now, multiplying both sides by [itex]2 \dot{\theta}[/itex], we get:
[tex]2 \dot{\theta} \ddot{\theta} = - 2 \frac{g}{L} \dot{\theta} sin(\theta)[/tex]
And now, we can rewrite both sides to get:
[tex]\frac{d \dot{\theta}^2}{dt} = 2 \frac{g}{L} \frac{d cos(\theta)}{dt}[/tex]
And now rearranging:
[tex]\frac{d ( \dot{\theta}^2 - 2 \frac{g}{L} cos(\theta))}{dt} = 0[/tex]
So we have a conserved quantity. And as it happens, this is conservation of energy. The reason energy is conserved for the pendulum is because the only force acting in the direction of its movement is gravity. So the energy is converted from GPE to KE and vice versa.
 

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