PAllen
Science Advisor
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PAllen said:That still doesn't quite convince me. Say I have an LED at rest near my apparatus. I measure it's frequency. Now I put it in a gun and shoot it along the top of my apparatus and measure the frequency at the bottom of my apparatus; I find it red shifted. I do assume that the LED in its own rest frame 'considers' its frequency to be the same as I measured when it was in the lab rest frame. I'm not trying to be obstinate, I just don't see how call this a simultaneity effect rather than a time dilation effect, no matter what synchronization I use - unless synchronization really does effect angle measurements for objects at rest (because then synchronization is changing transverse motion into motion at some other angle, thus changing the interpretation of the measured shift).
[One key point is that light based distance measurements need only the two way speed of light and one clock; these are not affected by simultaneity convention in an inertial frame.]
I think I see the way out of my conundrum. There is obviously no disputing transverse doppler - that is an actual measurement. There is also no dispute that my proposed apparatus (in principle) measured transverse Doppler without clocks or synchronization. HOWEVER, what Winnie's analysis shows that using an arguably perverse simultaneity convention between inertial frames, the explanation of transverse Doppler is that it is due to relativity of simultaneity. Then my apparatus is interpreted as measuring this predicted simultaneity effect.