Can you answer this unanswerable question?

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on the philosophical question, "Who made God?" Participants explore the concept of God as a self-created entity, referencing the lyrics from Jethro Tull's "Aqualung" to illustrate the idea that man creates God in his own image. The conversation delves into the nature of existence, time, and the universe, with contributors arguing that God transcends time and cannot be created. Key points include the assertion that God is unmade and eternal, and that the concept of a "first cause" is essential to understanding the divine.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of philosophical concepts related to existence and creation.
  • Familiarity with the lyrics and themes of Jethro Tull's "Aqualung."
  • Knowledge of basic principles of time and eternity in philosophical discourse.
  • Awareness of various religious and spiritual perspectives on the nature of God.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the philosophical implications of the "first cause" argument in metaphysics.
  • Explore the relationship between time and existence in quantum physics.
  • Study the lyrics and themes of Jethro Tull's "Aqualung" for deeper insights into human perception of divinity.
  • Investigate various religious interpretations of God’s nature across different cultures.
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Philosophers, theologians, students of religious studies, and anyone interested in existential questions about the nature of God and creation.

  • #91
it's funny that you would have taken the topic of this thread to mean who created the idea of God. the topic of the thread is who created God? you answered "humans, of course" and so that's how i interpreted your interpretation of the question. who or what created God, now that we've "established" that humans created the idea of God?

i could be wrong of course about what the querant intended by asking the "unasnwerable" question...
 
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  • #92
Originally posted by phoenixthoth
it's funny that you would have taken the topic of this thread to mean who created the idea of God. the topic of the thread is who created God? you answered "humans, of course" and so that's how i interpreted your interpretation of the question. who or what created God, now that we've "established" that humans created the idea of God?

i could be wrong of course about what the querant intended by asking the "unasnwerable" question...

Yawn, conversing with you is like conversing with a recording. If you think believing that a magical alien created the universe and has ultimate control of everything is the most logical conclusion, then go for it. Just do me a favor, don't call it truth.
 
  • #93
dodging the question, are we?

btw, i never claimed that nor called it truth.
 
  • #94
Originally posted by phoenixthoth
dodging the question, are we?

btw, i never claimed that nor called it truth.

No, I'm not "dodging the question" I answered the question many times. You are unwilling or unable to accept reality. You constantly dogdge near every question I send you way, only sending my pointed, unrelated and completely meaningless questions back my way. I deal with reality, if you can not handle reality then you are free to make up whatever little world you need to make you happy.
 
  • #95
then who created God? (to clarify: not the idea of God)
 
  • #96
Originally posted by phoenixthoth
then who created God? (to clarify: not the idea of God)

I don't know, what is god?
 
  • #97
and you claim you're not dodging the question? ok... ?

you've been using the word god (i can recall at least three times you've used the word) so let's start by however you've been meaning it.

just so you don't think I'm dodging your question, which is in itself a dodge of my question, i will tell you that I'm an agnostic theist. that means i believe that what i know cannot be "proved" bascially by definition. i don't have a definition of God. a definition is a limit. to say "God created the universe" implies a duality between God, creation, and the process of creation; this is an error for they are all the same thing. one *could* use that (God:=creation=all that exists) as a definition but that, to me, is not a definition. so i don't have a definition of God and it's purposefully left undefined, as i wrote, because that would be a limit on what the finite intellect of human can't grasp.

this is now further away from this thread topic and a tangent, but the agnostic part means, to me, that i believe no one will ever give a proof that either God exists or that God does not exist. the theist part is that i know God exists. i probably can't prove to you I'm not an artificially intelligent chat-bot or recording and so i have no hope of proving to you that God exists; nor would i try to because it would take something from you to know for sure whether there is a God.

back to me not having a definition of God, and such, know that I'm not trying to convince you of anything nor am i claiming anything. there is a circularity in the definition of the word set in mathematics (set=collection=aggregation=improper class=family=group=...=set) none of which elucidate what a set is for they are all basically synonyms. yet you can very well talk about their existence and their nature knowing that you haven't defined what you're talking about. it works in a similar way. it's also like if i look in the dictionary under cause and effect i get for cause something which produces and effect and for effect i get something resulting from a cause thus making one wonder what cause and effect really are. yet there is an intuitive sense for what a cause and effect is. so when you answer the question "who created God", try using that intuitive sense of what you think god is. (to clarify: who created god != who created the idea of god) that is the point of this thread and anything else is just crashing the thread. if you want to start a new thread on "can you answer this easily answerable question" regarding who created the idea of God, then by all means... a better discussion would come from why mankind created the idea of God. it's not as obvious in that case...
 
  • #98
Originally posted by phoenixthoth
then who created God? (to clarify: not the idea of God)

Alright, ready for your answer? Nobody created god, because as far as anybody knows, there is no god.

I'm not going to play the whole "but you can't prove/disprove it!" game. I can't disprove the tooth fairy as there just might be one well the ability to evade all observation but that still doesn't give the tooth fairy any sort of validity.

There is a reason why human's tend to cling onto a god idea so much, because it is comforting. It makes us feel good to imagine some force out there, something that created us and gave us purpose, something that gives us life after death(tm).

If god was just a coping tool, everything would be fine and dandy. Unfortunely, people do with "god" as they do with everything else: They bungle it up. Just look at the murder and mayhem caused around the world under the banner of one god or another.

edit: addition
 
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  • #99
i'm curious... why did you need me to define god in order for you to give the answer?

Nobody created god, because as far as anybody knows, there is no god.
i know that there is a god though you don't know that.
 
  • #100
angels

Originally posted by Loren Booda
Could there exist beings superior to humans who created a "God" concept superior to ours, and if so, what more might it include?

You mean like angels? If they were superior, there consciousness would also have to be. But then the question might be. Can mind create anything that is not part of what Reality might be?
 
  • #101
Originally posted by phoenixthoth
i'm curious... why did you need me to define god in order for you to give the answer?


i know that there is a god though you don't know that.

Oh that did it, there must be a god because "you just know there is!" I'm converted! I think we can mark this when this argument has broken down into complete meaningless and the end of my involvement in it.
 
  • #102
rader, the answer to your question is yes and deeviant is proving it in his/her mind.
 
  • #103
An infinite Universe --> an infinity of beings --> infinitely superior Being(s).
 
  • #104
Urantia

Originally posted by Loren Booda
An infinite Universe --> an infinity of beings --> infinitely superior Being(s).

Yes and if you had an infinite amount of time you could read 2097 pages of fine print, "Urantia" it tells of the magnitude of it all.
3 118833 50113
 
  • #105
I once got a letter personally responded to by the founders of Urantia, a cute septuagenarian couple. Theirs read as kind of a qualitative, feel-good physics, a hybrid of platitudes and scientific jargon.
 
  • #106
Originally posted by Loren Booda
I once got a letter personally responded to by the founders of Urantia, a cute septuagenarian couple. Theirs read as kind of a qualitative, feel-good physics, a hybrid of platitudes and scientific jargon.

Never got a letter only read the book. Did you? Yes i can see your point. Lack of originality; triteness. --plat”i·tu“di·nous.? Thats where human exprience is unique. But then if you want to know where Jesus Christ was most of his life. Read the end of the book. That unique.
 
  • #107
Rader,

Not to initiate an extended religious discussion, but what is this (direct) source concerning Jesus' life? The Bible would have more for my liking.
 
  • #108
Originally posted by Loren Booda
Rader,

Not to initiate an extended religious discussion, but what is this (direct) source concerning Jesus' life? The Bible would have more for my liking.

Loren Booda, Not interested either. Just saying that any two books written on the same subject, reflect the author. In this case through revelation, both are unique reading.
 
  • #109
bingo!
 

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