# B Carbonated Water Freezing and boiling points

1. Nov 16, 2016

### Grayman

Is there a way to calculate the freezing and boiling point of water that has different levels of CO2 in it?

2. Nov 17, 2016

### Bystander

Yes. Did you have a more specific question in mind?

3. Nov 17, 2016

### Staff: Mentor

The general answer is for you to understand colligative properties of solutions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colligative_properties

The idea is that you have colligative properties based on the number of moles of solute. Which solute (CO2) does not make a difference, it just has to be soluble. BTW: CO2 when dissolved in water forms carbonic acid - H2CO3

So as @Bystander correctly points out - what are you trying to do?

4. Nov 17, 2016

### CWatters

5. Nov 17, 2016

### Grayman

I didn't provide the why because I was avoiding controversial topics but here you go ->

1) Determine if the rise and acidification of the oceans in the last 50 years due to CO2 rising can cause the salt waters freezing point to change from then to now.
a) If so how much?
2) Determine if the rise in CO2 can cause fresh waters freezing point to change due to it absorbing CO2 in the air and from the oceans.
b) If so how much?

Why? I had a thought: Thermometers are zeroed and calibrated to the freezing points of Fresh Water (Celsius), as Celsius is defined the point of freezing of fresh water, and Fahrenheit for saltwater.

If the not entirely pure water mixtures used to calibrate all thermometers absorbs a different amount of CO2 from the atmosphere from 50 years ago until now due the doubling of CO2 in the air then could the thermometers 0 reference change over the years due to the changing standard of freezing water being that thermometers are calibrated to the freezing point of water?

6. Nov 17, 2016

### Bystander

Rest easy. People have been using "Vienna water" for serious calibrations for maannnyyyy years.

7. Nov 17, 2016

### Grayman

It didn't show up on a search engine.

If you are simply implying that the water is very very pure it will not make me feel better. Water absorbs O2 and CO2 gasses from the atmosphere and stirring or pouring it causes it to absorb faster. Unless you calibrated the thermometer in a controlled atmosphere where the CO2 levels were the same from 50 years ago until now the CO2 in the water would be different. Would this difference effect Vienna water?

8. Nov 17, 2016

### Bystander

9. Nov 18, 2016

### Staff: Mentor

Your notion of ocean chemistry could stand a tuneup. It's great that you're interested!

Hmm. I do not feel in the mood to write a textbook. So:
The solubility of CO2 in water changes dramatically with surface water temperature. This fact is one of the reasons for seasonal changes in CO2.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01861a033

Large bodies of water like oceans stratify: colder water on the bottom, transition thermocline in the middle, and a warmer epipelagic mixed layer on top.
The thermocline moves up and down in the water column seasonally in temperate latitudes, stays low in the tropics, and is non-existant in polar regions.
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/thermocline.html

Meromictic basins (fresh or salt water) never have mixing of upper layer with the bottom most layer. Accumulations of odd compounds like methane clathrates and HS are pronounced in meromictic ocean basins. Maybe think of them as fossil water mostly locked off from the atmosphere - the extreme being amictic Antarctic lakes.

If this over-brief note winds your clock, consider looking up the terms I used. Or even better, maybe take a peek at an online course in oceanography. Best, take a class!

One our active posters, @CapnGranite, has cataloged methane clathrates, for example. He may have something to say.

10. Nov 18, 2016

### 256bits

11. Nov 18, 2016

### CapnGranite

12. Nov 18, 2016

### Grayman

Perfect thanks.

Are there any experiments that anyone knows of that prove different atmospheric conditions have no effect on the calibration standard using the accepted techniques and standards that would theoretically produce the most accurate results.