Changes to a spinning skater's angular velocity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between a spinning skater's angular velocity and the forces acting on their body, specifically whether this can be described using Newton's second law (F=ma) instead of the conservation of angular momentum (L = constant). The scope includes theoretical reasoning and conceptual clarification regarding the dynamics of rotational motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the changes in angular velocity of a skater can be adequately described using F=ma rather than relying on the principle of angular momentum conservation.
  • One participant suggests that the centripetal force acting on the skater's hands can be analyzed using F=ma, describing how pulling the arms in affects the trajectory and angular velocity.
  • It is proposed that in the absence of tangential forces, the hands would maintain their tangential velocity, leading to a greater angular velocity as they move closer to the skater's axis.
  • Another participant notes that the arms exert a tangential force that decelerates the hands, which in turn affects the overall rotation of the skater.
  • Newton's third law is mentioned in relation to the forces experienced by the skater's body due to the actions of the arms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether F=ma can fully describe the dynamics of the skater's changing angular velocity, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the assumptions regarding the applicability of F=ma versus L = constant, nor does it clarify the conditions under which each might be more appropriate.

Rosenthal
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Can we describe what is happening as the skater's angular velocity increases/decreases using F=ma rather than invoking L = constant?
 
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Can you be more specific about "what" it is that is "happening"?
 
Welcome!
"When a body is acted upon by a force, the time rate of change of its momentum equals the force."
Would you explain the meaning of L to us?
 
Rosenthal said:
using F=ma rather than invoking L = constant?
Why would you want to?
 
Rosenthal said:
Can we describe what is happening as the skater's angular velocity increases/decreases using F=ma rather than invoking L = constant?
Yes. We could. For instance, we could consider a force of each hand on the other (mediated through the arms and body). In the starting configuration, this centripetal force is sufficient to accelerate each hand in its circular path around the axis of the skater's body. ##F=ma## is upheld and the hands circle as predicted.

We could consider what happens if that centripetal force is increased. The skater pulls her arms in. Now the hands accelerate inward more strongly than their previous centripetal acceleration. They assume an inward spiral trajectory. ##F=ma## in the radial direction conforms with this and predicts the result.

Significantly, in the absence of any resisting tangential force from the body, the hands would retain their original tangential velocity. With a new position nearer to the axis of the skater's body, the retained tangential velocity means that the hands would then have an angular velocity greater than that of the rest of the skater's body. Again, this would be consistent with ##F=ma## in the tangential direction together with the supposition of zero tangential force.

But the arms resist that relative motion with a rearward tangential force. This force decellerates the hands in their tangential motion around the body. Again, ##F=ma## is upheld and predicts the observed result.

Newton's third law means that the body is subject to forward tangential force from the hands. The arms are accelerated and acquire a greater tangential velocity as a result. Again, ##F=ma## is upheld and predicts the more rapid rotation of the skater as a whole.
 
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