Choice of signature important for superluminal 4-velocity? (Minkowski)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the significance of the choice of signature in Minkowski spacetime when dealing with superluminal 4-velocities. Participants explore the implications of different metric signatures on calculations involving spacelike curves and tangent vectors, with references to a specific problem from Rindler's text.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the choice of signature affects the calculation of superluminal 4-velocities, noting differing results when using (-,+,+,+) versus (+,-,-,-) signatures.
  • There is a suggestion that the term "superluminal 4-velocities" may be misleading, as it could imply a misunderstanding of the nature of tangent vectors to spacelike curves.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of being consistent with definitions alongside the choice of signature, raising the need for clarity on specific definitions used in calculations.
  • Concerns are expressed about the implications of using a signature that leads to imaginary or complex values for the interval, particularly when expected results do not include such units.
  • Another participant clarifies that the choice of signature does not fundamentally alter the physics or mathematics, as long as the correct signs are applied consistently throughout calculations.
  • There is a distinction made between the use of different definitions of \( ds \) in the context of tangent vectors and line elements, with a caution against conflating the two in calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the importance of signature choice, with some arguing it is crucial for certain calculations while others maintain that it does not affect the overall physics. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of signature choice on the interpretation of results.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the terminology and definitions used can lead to confusion, particularly regarding the nature of spacelike and timelike intervals and the interpretation of 4-velocities. There is also an acknowledgment of the potential for different conventions to yield results that appear different but are fundamentally consistent.

  • #61
PhDeezNutz said:
I would think that parallel means "same sign".

Same sign of what?

PhDeezNutz said:
A point that is stationary

I didn't describe a point, I described a curve. If you want to view it as a curve describing the "motion" of something, that something is certainly not staying at the same "point" (it goes from ##x = - \infty## to ##x = \infty##), so "stationary" does not seem like a good word to describe it.

PhDeezNutz said:
the x-axis is literally the position correct?

It's a coordinate line describing the range of possible positions in the ##x## direction.

PhDeezNutz said:
time stays the same while position changes.

More precisely, coordinate time stays the same while position changes.

PhDeezNutz said:
I don't know how to interpret that.

Well, we're talking about hypothetical objects that can "move" on spacelike trajectories. This particular spacelike trajectory covers every possible position on the ##x## axis in zero coordinate time. What does that suggest? (For example, what coordinate "speed" would you say such an object has?)

PhDeezNutz said:
I don't see any other way how ##\frac{dt}{ds}## can change with frames without considering relative motion.

First, what is ##dt / ds## for the curve I described, where the only coordinate that changes as a function of ##s## is ##x##?

Second, what does that same curve look like if we Lorentz transform to a different frame? I.e., what will the four functions ##t'(s)##, ##x'(s)##, ##y'(s)##, and ##z'(s)## look like? Assume we are doing a Lorentz boost in the ##x## direction (which means ##y' = y## and ##z' = z##, so only the ##t'(s)## and ##x'(s)## functions are of interest).

Third, given the answers above, will ##dt / ds## stay the same when we transform to the new frame, or will it change?
 
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  • #62
PhDeezNutz said:
Hopefully that definition is not limited to time like vectors.

No, it's valid in general since Rindler is taking the absolute value, which means this process discards the information about whether the vector is timelike or spacelike. (Note, however, that his definition as you give cannot possibly apply to null vectors, since their magnitude is zero.)

However, the fact that this definition throws away the information about whether the vector is timelike or spacelike means it can't possibly be used to determine a different formula for spacelike vectors than for timelike vectors. But that is what you are trying to use it to do.
 
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