Classical Electrodynamics and Relativity: The Lorentz-Dirac Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interactions of charged particles with their own electromagnetic fields in classical electrodynamics and the implications of general relativity on the world-lines of point masses. It addresses theoretical questions regarding self-forces, stress-energy tensors, and the behavior of particles in various configurations, including single and multiple point masses.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a charged particle does experience a force due to its own electromagnetic field when it is accelerating, although the calculation of this force remains unresolved due to infinite behavior at the charge's location.
  • One participant argues that there is no solution to Einstein's equation for a point-particle stress-energy tensor, suggesting that such particles cannot exist in general relativity, and that only extended bodies or black holes should be considered.
  • It is noted that objects respond to the physically measurable field without distinguishing between their own field and that produced by others, although self-forces may not contribute to motion in many approximations.
  • Another participant requests references for examples of the effects discussed, indicating interest in further reading on the Lorentz-Dirac equation and related topics.
  • One participant mentions a preference for viewing classical charges as extended objects, which complicates the derivation of equations of motion, and acknowledges the existence of relevant but challenging references.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and implications of point particles in general relativity and the nature of self-forces in classical electrodynamics. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of these interactions and the appropriate frameworks for understanding them.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the unresolved nature of self-force calculations, the dependence on definitions of point versus extended particles, and the complexities introduced by relativistic field theories.

quantum123
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1) In classical electrodynamics, does a charged particle experience any force exerted by the electromagnetic field it creates itself?

2) In general relativity, does the world-line of a lonely point mass obey the spacetime curvature created by the stress energy tensor created by the point mass?

3) In general relativity, in a system of 2 point masses, does the world-line of point mass A obey the spacetime curvature created by the stress energy tensor created by A or does the world-line of point mass A obey the spacetime curvature created by the stress energy tensor created by both particle A and particle B?

4) In a gas of N particles of point masses, does all the world-lines of all the point masses obey the spacetime curvature created by the stress energy tensor created by the N point masses or N-1 point masses?
 
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1) In CEM, a charged particle does experience a force due to its own EM field if it is accelerating, but the calculation of this force is still unsolved due to infinite behavior at the location of the charge and other conceptual difficulties.
 
1) Yes.

2) There is no solution to Einstein's equation for a point-particle stress-energy tensor. So such a particle cannot even exist. Only extended bodies or black hole-type objects are allowed in general relativity. Reasonably-speaking, this same restriction should be made for every classical field theory. Doing so solves many problems, including Meir's claim that there are conceptual difficulties in flat-spacetime EM.

In general, objects always respond to the physically-measurable field. They don't know the difference between what they've produced versus what has been produced by other sources. Still, it's well-known that in many approximations, the self-field does not contribute to the motion. It never contributes if Newton's 3rd law were exactly true. But of course it isn't in relativistic field theories, so you get nonzero self-forces in extreme situations.
 
Stingray said:
1) Yes.
Can you give a reference to a textbook or a paper showing explicitly an example of such an effect? I would be interested in seeing this.

Thanks
 
nrqed said:
Can you give a reference to a textbook or a paper showing explicitly an example of such an effect? I would be interested in seeing this.

That depends on the level you want to see it at (and your background). The last chapter of Jackson talks about this a bit. Here's a quick writeup intended to teach the Lorentz-Dirac equation, which is the name of the equation that a charged "point particle" should satisfy: http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9912045" .

I much prefer the viewpoint that classical charges are fundamentally extended objects, but deriving the equations of motion correctly is then much more complicated. There exist relevant references, but they're not easy to read.
 
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