Classical Electron Oscillator Model, quantum analogy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the classical electron oscillator model and its quantum analogy, specifically focusing on the absorption of energy by an atomic oscillator when driven by an external field. Participants explore the relationship between the time average power absorbed and the number of electrons absorbed per unit time, addressing conceptual challenges related to the factor of 2 in the equations derived.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the time average power absorbed by the oscillator and questions the conceptual understanding of the factor of 2 in the number of electrons absorbed per unit time.
  • Another participant suggests that the periodic nature of the work done may relate to the frequency of the driving field, indicating a possible connection to the factor of 2.
  • A different viewpoint proposes that the factor of 2 could be associated with the two polarizations of an unpolarized electromagnetic wave.
  • One participant concludes that the work done is periodic with half the period of the full oscillation, leading to a doubling of the average power when considering a full cycle of photon absorption.
  • Later, a participant expresses uncertainty about their previous reasoning, questioning whether the reduction in the time average affects the understanding of the factor of 2.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the origin of the factor of 2, with some proposing explanations related to periodicity and others suggesting alternative interpretations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact reasoning behind the factor.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on specific assumptions about the periodicity of the driving field and the behavior of the oscillator, which may not be universally applicable. The discussion also highlights the complexity of relating classical and quantum descriptions without reaching a consensus.

buttersrocks
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Hi,
I originally posted this question in the homework section, but I really don't need any help calculating anything, my answers are right. I'm having conceptual trouble, so I figured that this question belongs here.

So, let's say there is a field driving a single atomic oscillator (hydrogen for arguments sake). As a further simplification, let's say the oscillator has the same frequency as the driving field. I found the time average power absorbed by the oscillator and the time average number of electrons per unit time absorbed. (ie these quantities:)

[tex]\bigl \langle P \bigr \rangle &=& \bigl\langle\frac{dW}{dt}\bigr\rangle\\ &=& \frac{1}{2}eE_0\omega\nu[/tex]
(nu is just a constant that is frequency dependent... this equation is correct)
[tex]\bigl\langle\frac{dN}{dt}\bigr\rangle=\frac{eE_0}{\hbar}\nu[/tex] (this equation should be right but I can't grasp it conceptually.

What I can't understand is the factor of 2 that is associated with the number of electrons absorbed. Why isn't the number of electrons absorbed per unit time simply the time average power divided by [tex]\hbar\omega[/tex]?

Does it have something to do with the fact that the oscillator makes two displacements from and back to equilibrium in one period? Or, does it have something to do with emission? Where is the extra energy going, heat? Any help getting my mind around this one would be VERY much appreciated.
 
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Possibly along these lines:
http://www.ee.unb.ca/tervo/ee2791/vrms.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Don't think so. I'm actually close to having the result I think. It just hit me that the [tex]\frac{dW}{dt}[/tex] is periodic with freq [tex]\frac{\omega}{2}[/tex], whereas the E-field is periodic with frequency [tex]\omega[/tex] I feel like it comes from there. Gonna work through it now.
 
buttersrocks said:
Don't think so.

I see. I thought you were asking about the factor of 2 in the power equation. For the photons, maybe the two polarizations of an unpolarized electromagnetic wave?
 
Got it. Okay, so basically, how this works is that the work done is periodic with half the period of period of full oscillation. So, the time average of the power leaves us with the average power for 1/2 cycle. So, the power absorbed over a full cycle is twice that. Since the photons are absorbed in a full oscillation, (not the half oscillation of the work function) we get that [tex]\hbar\omega N = 2W[/tex] where N is the number of photons absorbed during the full oscillation. (This is due to the fact that the frequency of oscillation is the same for the atom as it is for the photon. The photons drive the atom through an entire cycle, not just to one side.) There's our factor of 2.
 
Okay, changed my mind, that doesn't make sense, does it? Does this work because we started with a function for a full cycle and it just got reduced when we took the time average?
 

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