Co-located pair of Phased Array Antennas

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of a dual phased array antenna system where odd and even elements are driven by separate input ports. Participants explore the potential for achieving high isolation between the ports and closely matching radiation patterns, while considering fundamental constraints such as reciprocity and conservation of energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that achieving 20 dB isolation between the two ports while maintaining nearly identical radiation patterns is the main goal of the thought experiment.
  • Another participant argues that a broadside array of co-phased elements does not achieve zero radiation in the edge-on direction at all distances, suggesting that the desired isolation may not be feasible due to inherent coupling between the arrays.
  • A later reply questions whether the decrease in broadside radiation at infinity can be considered an evanescent mode, referencing external sources for clarification.
  • Another participant corrects the previous assumption about evanescent modes, stating that the energy is ordinary radiated energy and that intensity variations depend on geometrical and phase relations near the array.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of achieving the specified isolation and matching radiation patterns, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight fundamental constraints such as reciprocity and conservation of energy, but do not resolve the implications of these constraints on the proposed antenna design.

Swamp Thing
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I have been debating with a friend about a thought experiment that evolved out of an entirely unrelated discussion, but which has now become a subject of argument.

Consider a "dual" phased array antenna that has every odd-numbered radiating element driven from input port 1 and every even-numbered element driven from input port 2. Essentially, we have two phased array antennas that are 'co-located' or interleaved, so that their radiation patterns coincide, or at least their main radiation lobes coincide. The excitation is such that the main radiation pattern (normal to the array plane) is approximately Gaussian, for example.

Is it possible to achieve the following:

1. Isolation between port 1 and port two of the order of 20 dB or better. That is, sending power down port 1 with port 2 terminated will result in less than a hundredth of the power reaching the termination. The reflected power in a port (return loss) is also 20 dB down.

2. The radiation patterns of the two antennas are nearly identical to the extent that the amplitudes in any direction differ by less than 0.5 dB and the phases match within 5 degrees (these are just to give a sense of the orders of magnitude).

We are concerned mainly with fundamental constraints like reciprocity and conservation of energy. Would the above specs violate these principles?
 
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A broadside array of co-phased elements spaced half a wavelength provides zero radiation in the edge-on direction. In this direction it can be considered as an endfire array with zero gain, but the zero radiation only arises at great distances. This is because for the end fire condition, the path loss from every element must be nearly equal and so the relative distances must be nearly equal.
If you measure the radiation close to the edge of the array, it is not zero, and inside the line of the array it is very high.
In a limiting case, if the arrays have one element each, when you introduce your second array there will be very small loss between the two.
This loss can never be less than 3dB but will in addition have a small path loss of a decibel or so.
So in my estimation the two arrays will have coupling of just a few decibels and not 20dB as desired.
 
Thank you. About the broadside radiation decreasing to zero at infinity, would it be correct to see it as a sort of evanescent mode?

Edit: As per wikipedia, that seems to be correct.

Thanks again.
 
Is there any open source software that I can use to simulate a small number of phased radiating elements?
 
Swamp Thing said:
Thank you. About the broadside radiation decreasing to zero at infinity, would it be correct to see it as a sort of evanescent mode?

Edit: As per wikipedia, that seems to be correct.

Thanks again.
Not evanescent, it is ordinary radiated energy. Intensity can fall off at different rates near an array due to geometrical/phase relations, and the pattern near an array differs from that far away.
 

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