MHB How to Use Variables m and n in a Coin-Flipping Probability Problem?

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The discussion focuses on calculating the probability of player A winning a coin-flipping game against player B, given their initial points m and n. The probability of winning can be expressed using a recurrence relation that incorporates the probabilities of winning after each flip, denoted as w_k for k points. The total points remain constant at m+n, and the game ends when one player reaches zero points. A general formula for A's winning probability is derived, emphasizing the relationship between m, n, and the coin's bias p. The conversation highlights the complexity of the problem while providing insights into the mathematical approach needed to solve it.
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Dear Members I am very bad at probability, so please I hope I can find help here. My problem is that I can't see how to use n and m in this problem

Suppose a coin-flipping game between two players, A and B. The probability that the coin lands heads up is p (0<p<1). In case a head appears, player A gets one point and player B loses one point. In case a tail appears, player B gets one point and player A loses one point. When either one of the players lose all their points, the game ends and the player having points becomes the winner. When the initial points of A and B are m and n respectively, calculate the probability that player A wins. Note that m and n are positive integers.

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Sincerely yours
 
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Khelil said:
Dear Members I am very bad at probability, so please I hope I can find help here. My problem is that I can't see how to use n and m in this problem

Suppose a coin-flipping game between two players, A and B. The probability that the coin lands heads up is p (0<p<1). In case a head appears, player A gets one point and player B loses one point. In case a tail appears, player B gets one point and player A loses one point. When either one of the players lose all their points, the game ends and the player having points becomes the winner. When the initial points of A and B are m and n respectively, calculate the probability that player A wins. Note that m and n are positive integers.
This is not an easy problem, and it does not have a simple solution. Start by noticing that whenever A wins a point, B loses a point; and vice versa, whenever A loses a point, B wins a point. So the total number of points of A and B combined is always $m+n$. Thus A will lose if his number of points ever goes down to $0$, and he will win if his number of points ever goes up to $m+n$.

Denote by $w_k$ the probability that A will win if he starts with $k$ points, and let $q=1-p$. If A wins the first flip (with probability $p$) then he will have $k+1$ points, and his probability of winning becomes $w_{k+1}.$ If he loses the first flip (with probability $q$) then he will have $k-1$ points, and his probability of winning becomes $w_{k-1}.$ Therefore $$w_k = pw_{k+1} + qw_{k-1}.\qquad(*)$$ Also, $w_0=0$ (corresponding to A losing the game), and $w_{m+n} = 1$ (corresponding to A winning the game).

Put $k=1$ in (*) to see that $w_1 = pw_2$, so $w_2 = \dfrac1pw_1$. Now put $k=2$ in (*): $w_2 = pw_3 + qw_1 = pw_3 + pqw_2$, from which $w_3 = \dfrac{(1-pq)}pw_2 = \dfrac{(1-pq)}{p^2}w_1.$ Continue in this way. The next step will be to put $k=3$ in (*), giving $w_4 = \dfrac{1-2pq}{p(1-pq)}w_3 = \dfrac{1-2pq}{p^2}w_1.$ If you go further, you will find that $w_5 = \dfrac{1-3pq + p^2q^2}{p^4}w_1$ and $w_6 = \dfrac{1-4pq + 3p^2q^2}{p^5}w_1$. Eventually, you get to a formula for $w_{m+n}$ as a multiple of $w_1$. And since you know that $w_{m+n}=1$ you then have an expression for $w_1$ in terms of $p$ and $q$.

Suppose for example that $m+n=6$. Putting $w_6=1$ you find that $$w_1 = \frac{p^5}{1-4pq + 3p^2q^2},$$ $$w_2 = \frac{p^4}{1-4pq + 3p^2q^2},$$ $$w_3 = \frac{(1-pq)p^3}{1-4pq + 3p^2q^2},$$ $$w_4 = \frac{(1-2pq)p^2}{1-4pq + 3p^2q^2},$$ $$w_5 = \frac{(1-3pq + p^2q^2)p}{1-4pq + 3p^2q^2}.$$ That gives A's probabilities of winning a game in which $m+n=6$, in the cases where he starts with 1,2,3,4 or 5 points.

You can see that for larger values of $m$ and $n$ the algebra gets rapidly more complicated. If you know something about solving recurrence relations, you could get a formula for the polynomials in $pq$ that occur in the general solution, but it would not look pretty.

In the case of a fair coin, where $p=q=1/2$, the calculations become very much simpler, and $w_k$ increases linearly from $0$ to $1$ as $k$ goes from $0$ to $m+n$. So when $m+n=6$ you would then find that $w_1 = 1/6$, $w_2 = 1/3$, $w_3 = 1/2$, $w_4 = 2/3$ and $w_5 = 5/6$.
 
Just for the record, here is a brief sketch of how to derive the general formula for $w_m$ (the probability of A winning, given that A started with $m$ points and B started with $n$ points).

The polynomials $\Delta_1 = \Delta_2 = 1$, $\Delta_3 = 1-pq$, $\Delta_4 = 1-2pq$, $\Delta_5 = 1-3pq + p^2q^2$, $\Delta_6 = 1-4pq + 3p^2q^2$, $\ldots$, satisfy the recurrence relation $\Delta_k = \Delta_{k-1} -pq\Delta_{k-2}\;(k\geqslant3)$, as you can check from the equation (*) in the previous comment. The auxiliary equation for this recurrence relation is $\lambda^2 - \lambda + pq = 0$, with solutions $\lambda = \frac12\bigl(1 \pm \sqrt{1-4pq}\bigr)$. This leads to the formula $$\Delta_k = \frac{\bigl( \frac12\bigl(1 + \sqrt{1-4pq}\bigr)\bigr)^k - \bigl( \frac12\bigl(1 - \sqrt{1-4pq}\bigr)\bigr)^k }{\sqrt{1-4pq}}.$$ Then $\boxed{w_m = \dfrac{p^n\Delta_m}{\Delta_{m+n}}}$. That looks very neat, but of course it disguises the complications in the definition of $\Delta_k$.
 
thank you for your help !
 
Opalg said:
Just for the record, here is a brief sketch of how to derive the general formula for $w_m$ (the probability of A winning, given that A started with $m$ points and B started with $n$ points).

The polynomials $\Delta_1 = \Delta_2 = 1$, $\Delta_3 = 1-pq$, $\Delta_4 = 1-2pq$, $\Delta_5 = 1-3pq + p^2q^2$, $\Delta_6 = 1-4pq + 3p^2q^2$, $\ldots$, satisfy the recurrence relation $\Delta_k = \Delta_{k-1} -pq\Delta_{k-2}\;(k\geqslant3)$, as you can check from the equation (*) in the previous comment. The auxiliary equation for this recurrence relation is $\lambda^2 - \lambda + pq = 0$, with solutions $\lambda = \frac12\bigl(1 \pm \sqrt{1-4pq}\bigr)$. This leads to the formula $$\Delta_k = \frac{\bigl( \frac12\bigl(1 + \sqrt{1-4pq}\bigr)\bigr)^k - \bigl( \frac12\bigl(1 - \sqrt{1-4pq}\bigr)\bigr)^k }{\sqrt{1-4pq}}.$$ Then $\boxed{w_m = \dfrac{p^n\Delta_m}{\Delta_{m+n}}}$. That looks very neat, but of course it disguises the complications in the definition of $\Delta_k$.
I keep coming back to this problem, and I now realize that the solution is not nearly as elaborate as I first thought. In fact, the expression $\sqrt{1-4pq}$ can be much simplified, because $q=1-p$ and therefore $1-4pq = 1-4p(1-p) = 1-4p+4p^2 = (1-2p)^2.$ Consequently, the roots of the recurrence relation are $\lambda = p$ and $\lambda = 1-p = q$; and the formula for $\Delta_k$ becomes $$\Delta_k = \left|\frac{p^k - q^k}{p-q}\right|.$$ Thus $\boxed{w_m = \left|\dfrac{p^n(p^m - q^m)}{p^{m+n} - q^{m+n}}\right|}$.
 
thank you very much again.

My problem was actually to put m and n in use. It is more important for me than to actually know the general expression of :

$$w_{m}$$

I love this forum :D
 
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