Commutator of covariant derivatives

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the commutator of covariant derivatives, specifically examining the relationship between the covariant derivative defined in a paper and the resulting expression for the field strength tensor. Participants explore the mathematical properties and implications of the commutation relation between these operators.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references a paper that defines a covariant derivative and questions the derivation of the field strength tensor from the commutator of covariant derivatives.
  • Another participant suggests directly substituting the definition of the covariant derivative into the commutator to clarify the relationship.
  • Multiple participants inquire about the disappearance of terms involving the operator acting on functions, indicating confusion about the commutation process.
  • A participant provides an example using two operators acting on functions to illustrate how to compute the commutator, emphasizing the need to consider the action of the commutator on functions.
  • One participant discusses the composition of operators and how the notation for operator products can be interpreted in terms of composition laws.
  • Another participant clarifies that the commutator is defined as a linear operator and explains the relationship between derivatives and multiplication operators in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the commutator and the treatment of operator products. There is no consensus on the underlying assumptions or the implications of the definitions provided in the paper.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the importance of understanding the action of operators on functions, while others point out the need for clarity regarding the definitions and properties of the operators involved. Unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions about operator behavior are present in the discussion.

naima
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Hi there
I came across this paper.
the author defines a covariant derivative in (1.3)
##D_\mu = \partial_\mu - ig A_\mu##
He defines in (1.6)
##F_{jk} = i/g [D_j,D_k]##
Why is it equal to ##\partial_j A_k - \partial_k A_j - ig [A_j, A_k]##?
I suppose that it comes from a property of Lie derivatives.
Thanks
 
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Just put the definition of ## D_\mu ## in ## [D_\mu,D_\nu] ## and calculate!
You can apply the above operator on a scalar field, i.e. calculate ## [D_\mu,D_\nu]\phi ## to avoid confusion.
 
Why does ##A_j \partial_k## disappear?
 
naima said:
Why does ##A_j \partial_k## disappear?

What you have is a commutator of operators, in order to compute the commutator - which is another operator - you need to consider the action of the commutator.

I suggest you start with the following example with two operators acting on functions on the real line:

Operator ##A## is such that ##Af(x) = A(x)f(x)##, where ##A(x)## is a function.
Operator ##B## is the derivative operator such that ##Bf(x) = f'(x)##.

The commutator ##[A,B]## is the operator such that ##[A,B]f(x) = (AB - BA)f(x)## for all ##f##. What is this operator?
 
Thank you

This shows that when you have product of operators D and B acting on a vector V, the notation DBV may be considered as a compositiion law
D(BV) or else (DB) V if you can give sense to (DB)
IF D and B are patrices the internal law of multiplication gives
(DB)V = D(BV)
here (DB) = D(B .)
If D is a derivative we have D(BV) = (DB)V + B (DV)
This gives a sense to (DB)
here (DB) = DB - BD

So the equality in the paper comes from an implicit choice for the product of operators.
Unless it is based on a more intrinsic way to mix covariant derivatives.
 
It does not matter whether D and B are matrices or linear operators on a general function space (including derivatives). The commutator [D,B] is defined as the linear operator such that [D,B]f = D(Bf) - B(Df) for all f in the vector space that the operators act on.

If D is a derivative and B is multiplication by a function b, you have D(Bf) = D(bf) = f (Db) + b(Df) = f(Db) + B(Df) and therefore D(Bf) - B(Df) = [D,B]f = f (Db), i.e., the commutator [D,B] is multiplication by the function Db. Note that I have used capital and lower case Bs to distinguish DB (operator product) from Db (a function).
 

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