Compton Scattering Using Newtonian Physics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving a specific equation related to Compton scattering using Newtonian physics. Participants are exploring the application of conservation laws and trigonometric identities to arrive at the desired expression, while grappling with algebraic challenges.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an equation involving the energies of incident and scattered photons, the scattering angle, and the mass of the electron, indicating they are close to a solution but struggling with algebra.
  • Another participant outlines the conservation of momentum and energy, providing equations for the momenta and energies involved, while assuming the electron starts from rest.
  • A third participant reiterates the conservation laws and provides similar equations, suggesting a method to relate the momenta using the cosine law.
  • A later reply suggests an alternative approach by dividing an equation instead of squaring it, hinting at how to incorporate the cosine term and the mc² terms into the derivation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants are engaged in a collaborative exploration of the derivation, with no consensus reached on the best method to proceed. Multiple approaches are being discussed, indicating a lack of agreement on the optimal path forward.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the algebraic steps and the manipulation of terms necessary to derive the desired equation. There are also dependencies on the assumptions made about the initial conditions of the electron.

rpardo
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Hey guys,

Im trying to derive the following equation

(mc^2) [(1/E2)-(1/E1)]+cos(theta)-[((E1-E2)^2)/(2E1E2)]=1

E1 = Incident Photon's energy
E2 = Scattered Photon's energy
theta= scattering angle
m = mass of electron
c = s

Using conservation of energy,conservation of mass, and the cosine law

I've derived the relativistic equation, but I am really stumped on how to derive this...its been a couple days
Any help at all would be appreciated. I feel like I'm really close but the algebra is the problem

Thanks in advance for your help guys and gals,
 
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\[
\begin{gathered}
{\text{Conservation of momentum: }}p_1 + p_{e_1 } = p_2 + p_{e_2 } \hfill \\
{\text{assume electron starts from rest }}p_1 = p_2 + p_{e_2 } \hfill \\
{\text{Conservation of energy: }}E_1 + E_{e_1 } = E_2 + E_{e_2 } \hfill \\
E_1 = p_1 c \hfill \\
E_2 = p_2 c \hfill \\
E_{e_1 } = 0 \hfill \\
E_{e_2 } = \frac{1}
{2}m_0 v^2 = \frac{1}
{{2m_0 }}p_e ^2 \hfill \\
\hfill \\
p_1 c = p_2 c + \frac{1}
{{2m_0 }}p_e ^2 {\text{ }} \hfill \\
\Leftrightarrow 2m_0 c(p_1 - p_2 ) = p_e ^2 \hfill \\
{\text{Sub in }}p_e ^2 = p_1 ^2 + p_2 ^2 - 2p_1 p_2 \cos \Theta {\text{ from cosine law}} \hfill \\
\Rightarrow 2m_0 c(p_1 - p_2 ) = p_1 ^2 + p_2 ^2 - 2p_1 p_2 \cos \Theta \hfill \\
\Leftrightarrow (2m_0 c(p_1 - p_2 ))^2 = (p_1 ^2 + p_2 ^2 - 2p_1 p_2 \cos \Theta )^2 \hfill \\
\Leftrightarrow 4m_0 ^2 c^2 (p_1 ^2 - 2p_1 p_2 + p_2 ^2 ) = p_1 ^4 + 2p_1 ^2 p_2 ^2 - 4p_1 ^3 p_2 \cos \Theta + p_2 ^4 - 4p_2 ^3 p_1 \cos \Theta + 4p_1 ^2 p_2 ^2 \cos ^2 \Theta \hfill \\
\Leftrightarrow 4m_0 ^2 c^2 p_1 ^2 - 8m_0 ^2 c^2 p_1 p_2 + 4m_0 ^2 c^2 p_2 = p_1 ^4 + 2p_1 ^2 p_2 ^2 - 4p_1 ^3 p_2 \cos \Theta + p_2 ^4 - 4p_2 ^3 p_1 \cos \Theta + 4p_1 ^2 p_2 ^2 \cos ^2 \Theta \hfill \\
\end{gathered}
\]
 
rpardo said:
[tex] \[<br /> \begin{gathered}<br /> {\text{Conservation of momentum: }}p_1 + p_{e_1 } = p_2 + p_{e_2 } \hfill \\<br /> {\text{assume electron starts from rest }}p_1 = p_2 + p_{e_2 } \hfill \\<br /> {\text{Conservation of energy: }}E_1 + E_{e_1 } = E_2 + E_{e_2 } \hfill \\<br /> E_1 = p_1 c \hfill \\<br /> E_2 = p_2 c \hfill \\<br /> E_{e_1 } = 0 \hfill \\<br /> E_{e_2 } = \frac{1}<br /> {2}m_0 v^2 = \frac{1}<br /> {{2m_0 }}p_e ^2 \hfill \\<br /> \hfill \\<br /> p_1 c = p_2 c + \frac{1}<br /> {{2m_0 }}p_e ^2 {\text{ }} \hfill \\<br /> \Leftrightarrow 2m_0 c(p_1 - p_2 ) = p_e ^2 \hfill \\<br /> {\text{Sub in }}p_e ^2 = p_1 ^2 + p_2 ^2 - 2p_1 p_2 \cos \Theta {\text{ from cosine law}} \hfill \\<br /> \Rightarrow 2m_0 c(p_1 - p_2 ) = p_1 ^2 + p_2 ^2 - 2p_1 p_2 \cos \Theta \hfill \\<br /> \Leftrightarrow (2m_0 c(p_1 - p_2 ))^2 = (p_1 ^2 + p_2 ^2 - 2p_1 p_2 \cos \Theta )^2 \hfill \\<br /> \Leftrightarrow 4m_0 ^2 c^2 (p_1 ^2 - 2p_1 p_2 + p_2 ^2 ) = p_1 ^4 + 2p_1 ^2 p_2 ^2 - 4p_1 ^3 p_2 \cos \Theta + p_2 ^4 - 4p_2 ^3 p_1 \cos \Theta + 4p_1 ^2 p_2 ^2 \cos ^2 \Theta \hfill \\<br /> \Leftrightarrow 4m_0 ^2 c^2 p_1 ^2 - 8m_0 ^2 c^2 p_1 p_2 + 4m_0 ^2 c^2 p_2 = p_1 ^4 + 2p_1 ^2 p_2 ^2 - 4p_1 ^3 p_2 \cos \Theta + p_2 ^4 - 4p_2 ^3 p_1 \cos \Theta + 4p_1 ^2 p_2 ^2 \cos ^2 \Theta \hfill \\ <br /> \end{gathered} <br /> \][/tex]

Fixed your latex!
 
Once you get to

[tex]2m_0c(p_1-p_2) = p_1^2+p_2^2-2p_1p_2\cos\theta[/tex]

don't square the equation. Instead, divide by [itex]2p_1p_2[/itex]. Throw in factors of c here and there, and you'll have the cosine term and the mc2(1/E2-1/E1) terms that you want. You just have to then figure out how the rest works out.
 

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