Concavity of a function of 2 variables

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concavity of a specific function of two variables, particularly focusing on proving concavity for all positive values of x and y. Participants explore various mathematical approaches, including the use of second derivatives and the Hessian, while considering both general and specific cases of the function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant is attempting to prove that the function (1-et(y-x))xy/(x+et(y-x)y) is concave for all positive x and y, but is unsure if this can be proven generally or only for specific values.
  • Another participant suggests that showing concavity for fixed values of y as a function of x (and vice versa) might be easier.
  • There are concerns about mismatching brackets in the function's expression, which could lead to ambiguity.
  • A corrected expression is provided, leading to further exploration of the second derivative.
  • Some participants report that WolframAlpha yields a positive second derivative for certain values, while others argue that it might not hold for all t > 0.
  • One participant proposes a simplification of the function using new variables, which leads to a different form that may be easier to analyze.
  • Another participant points out that the function is not defined at z=1 (where x=y), suggesting that different intervals for z need to be considered separately.
  • There is a discussion about the symmetry of the function and whether it can be leveraged to aid in proving concavity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the concavity of the function, with some asserting that the second derivative is positive under certain conditions, while others challenge this assertion. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the concavity of the function.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the second derivative and the presence of sign errors in earlier expressions, which may affect the analysis. The discussion also highlights the need for careful consideration of specific cases and the limitations of the function's definition at certain points.

NotEuler
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Hi all,

I'm trying to show that a particular function of two variables is concave for all positive values of x and y. I'm pretty sure it is, but I haven't been able to prove it.

The function is (1-et(y-x))xy)/(x+et(y-x)y)

t is a positive parameter, and as mentioned, x and y are always positive.

I've tried looking at second derivatives and the Hessian, but haven't really got anywhere. I wonder if this is even possible to prove generally, or just for specific values of x and y?

Actually, for my pyrposes it would be sufficient to show that for any given fixed value of y, the function is a concave function of x, and vice versa. I'm not sure if this is any easier...

Any input and suggestions would be much appreciated!
 
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NotEuler said:
Actually, for my pyrposes it would be sufficient to show that for any given fixed value of y, the function is a concave function of x, and vice versa. I'm not sure if this is any easier...
That looks easier, but I would expect the more general approach works as well.

There are mismatching brackets in the numerator that make the expression ambiguous.
 
mfb said:
There are mismatching brackets in the numerator that make the expression ambiguous.

Ah yes, sorry! A sign typo too, unfortunately. I now tried to figure out how to copy an expression from mathematica in latex... let's see if this works, hopefully will help to avoid any typos in the future.The correct expression is:

[itex]\frac{\left(1-e^{t (-x+y)}\right) x y}{x-e^{t (-x+y)} y}[/itex]

Thanks for your reply, and sorry for the mistake!
 
WolframAlpha gets a positive second x derivative for y=2, x=1, t > -1.
 
mfb said:
WolframAlpha gets a positive second x derivative for y=2, x=1, t > -1.

It looks to me like the 2nd derivative is positive only for values t<-ln(2)=-0.69. Would you agree? I only need to show concavity for t>0.

If you're correct, then it obviously isnt't concave, if I'm right, then it could be.
 
Example query - if the url does not work: d^2/dx^2 ( (1-e^(t*(2-x)))*x*2/(x-e^(t*(2-x))*1) ) with t=1 and x=1

t>0, x>0, y>0, but the second derivative is positive.
 
I think
mfb said:
( (1-e^(t*(2-x)))*x*2/(x-e^(t*(2-x))*1) )
should be
( (1-e^(t*(2-x)))*x*2/(x-e^(t*(2-x))*2) ) ?

Seems that the 2nd derivative is then negative.
 
Oops, forgot to change that when I changed y=2 to y=1.

$$xy\frac{1-e^{t(y-x)}}{x-ye^{t(y-x)}}$$
Let's introduce c=ety > 0 and z=xt > 0. Also ignore the first factor of y because it does not change the sign of the second derivative.
$$\frac{z}{t}\frac{1-ce^{-z}}{\frac{z}{t}-yce^{-z}} = z\frac{1-ce^{-z}}{z-ycte^{-z}}$$
Define yct=d
$$z\frac{e^z-c}{ze^z-d} = 1-\frac{zc-d}{ze^z-d}$$
With positive constants c and d and z>0. That looks much easier.
 
Last edited:
Thanks, that looks very helpful! Unfortunately the 2nd derivative still looks very complicated, and I got stuck once again. (By the way, there's a - sign missing in the denominator of the first expression, which carries over into all the others).

Here's another suggestion, which makes it even simpler: Introduce z=x/y and a=ety. Then (ignoring again the first factor y) the function simplifies to
[itex]\frac{z \left(1-a^{1-z}\right)}{z-a^{1-z}}[/itex]
or
[itex]\frac{z \left(a^z-a\right)}{z a^z-a}[/itex]

So now we're only left with a parameter a>1, and z>0. It should be sufficient to show that the 2nd derivative for z is negative, but still this looks hard. I wonder if there's some other way to go about this..

One thing that becomes clear from this form is that the function is not defined at z=1 (equivalent to x=y in the original function). So 0<z<1 and 1<z<∞ would probably have to be investigated separately.
 
  • #10
Ah, I got that sign error from post 1 where the denominator had a +.

You can do the same trick with your expression:
$$\frac{z \left(a^z-a\right)}{z a^z-a} = \frac{z a^z-a+a-za}{z a^z-a} = 1-a\frac{z-1}{z a^z-a}$$
So we have to show the second derivative of ##\frac{z-1}{z a^z-a}## is positive. This is still too messy, but we can do more (using a>1): for z<1, z a^z < a and therefore the whole expression is positive. For z>1, the expression is positive as well. Let's define
$$f(x)=\frac{z a^z-a}{z-1}$$
Now $$\left(\frac{1}{f(x)}\right)'' = \frac{1}{f^3}(2f'^2-f''f)$$
That is more complicated, but the derivatives are easier to calculate. I'll go back to the expression with c and d because it avoids log(a) in the derivatives, the term is still positive for the same reason.

$$f(z)(d-cz)=d-z e^z$$
$$f'(z)(d-cz)^2=cd +ce^zz^2-de^zz-de^x$$
$$f''(z)(d-cz)^3=2c^2d - c^2 e^z z^3 + 2cd e^z (z^2+2z-1) - d^2 e^x x -2d^2 e^x$$
So... is two times the square of the middle expression always larger than the product of the first and last expression? I took (d-cz) terms out because they'll appear in 4th power in both cases and cancel (they are always positive as well, ignoring x=y).
I see some terms that cancel but it still looks messy.
 
  • #11
Thanks - but like you said, still looks a bit messy.
I might be clutching at straws here, but the function can also be written as

[itex]xy \frac{e^{t x}-e^{t y}}{x e^{t x}-y e^{t y}}[/itex]

Could the symmetry of this form be used somehow to help solve the problem?
 
  • #12
14 and 10 terms, significantly easier than the expressions before - did you try it?

The symmetric form invites to set x'=tx, y'=ty, which gives
$$xy\frac{e^x-e^y}{xe^x-ye^y}$$
after ignoring a constant factor of t and using x and y again. And that second derivative looks interesting as well, would need several x>y, y>x estimates.
 

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