Conservation of energy for toy gun

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of energy in the context of a spring-loaded toy gun that shoots a ball vertically. Participants explore the principles of mechanical energy conservation, the roles of conservative and nonconservative forces, and the potential energies associated with the spring and gravity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether mechanical energy is conserved in the system, given the absence of nonconservative forces acting on the ball after its release.
  • Another participant asserts that no nonconservative forces act on the ball, emphasizing the absence of air resistance and contact with the gun.
  • It is proposed that gravitational potential energy is given by mgh and spring potential energy by 1/2 k x^2, where x is the displacement from the unstretched position.
  • A formula for maximum height, h_max = (1/2)kx^2/gm, is presented, suggesting a relationship between spring stiffness, compression distance, and the height the ball reaches.
  • A later reply challenges the relevance of the gravitational constant and mass of the object in the context of spring potential energy, indicating a potential misunderstanding in the earlier claim.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the implications of certain variables on spring potential energy and the relationship between energy conservation and the forces acting on the ball.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the definitions of terms used, particularly concerning the relationship between gravitational effects and spring potential energy. The discussion also reflects varying levels of understanding among participants.

WY
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I've been reading about a situation on the conservation of energy:
A spring-loaded toy gun is used to shoot a ball of mass m straight up in the air. View Figure The spring has spring constant k. If the spring is compressed a distance x_0 from its equilibrium position and then released, the ball reaches a maximum height h_max (measured from the equilibrium position of the spring). There is no air resistance, and the ball never touches the inside of the gun. Assume x_o is greater than h

Now my question to this is that:
Is mechanical energy conserved because no nonconservative forces perform work on the ball and do nonconservative forces act in this situation after the ball is released at all? and do the forces of gravity and the spring have potential energies associated with them?

As you can tell I don't really have a great grasp on these concepts, so would anyone like to enlighten me please? thanks so much!
 
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WY said:
Now my question to this is that:
Is mechanical energy conserved because no nonconservative forces perform work on the ball and do nonconservative forces act in this situation after the ball is released at all?
No nonconservative forces act on the ball at any time (in this problem). That's why they specify "There is no air resistance, and the ball never touches the inside of the gun."; those would be nonconservative forces.

and do the forces of gravity and the spring have potential energies associated with them?
Absolutely. Gravitational potential energy (near the Earth's surface) is given by mgh, where "h" is height measured from some arbitrary reference point. Spring potential energy is given by 1/2 k x^2, where x is the displacement from the unstretched position.
 
so, h,max=(1/2)kx^2/gm
look closely at this equation and it will make sense to you!
the stiffer the spring the larger the "k" the more energy the spring has when it is compressed, and the higher the ball will go for a given x the distance the spring is compressed! A springs potential energy stored is proportional [1/2 k] to its distance compressed squared.
and inversely proportional to both the Earth's gravitational constant and the mass of the object shot up!

this should make some sense, right?

love and peace,
and,
peace and love,
(kirk) kirk gregory czuhai
http://www.altelco.net/~lovekgc/kirksresume.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kirk,

"A springs potential energy stored is proportional [1/2 k] to its distance compressed squared. and inversely proportional to both the Earth's gravitational constant and the mass of the object shot up! this should make some sense, right?"

Actually no.

What does "the Earth's gravitational constant" or "the mass of the object shot up" have to do with a spring's potential energy?
 

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