Conservation of mass-energy in time travel

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of conservation of mass-energy in the context of time travel, particularly through traversable wormholes as proposed by Kip Thorne. Participants explore theoretical objections related to time travel and the conservation laws in general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant raises the concern that if a photon were to travel back in time, it could result in a violation of conservation of mass-energy by creating two photons from one.
  • Another participant asserts that global conservation of energy does not hold in general relativity without specific conditions on the spacetime.
  • A further contribution explains that in flat spacetime, energy conservation is linked to the equations of motion being independent of absolute time, referencing Noether's theorem.
  • It is noted that in non-flat spacetime, the lack of time-translation symmetry means energy conservation may not apply.
  • A participant expresses satisfaction with the discussion and indicates a shift in focus to other objections regarding closed time-like curves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the limitations of energy conservation in general relativity, but multiple competing views regarding the implications for time travel remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the nature of spacetime (flat vs. non-flat) and the assumptions related to energy conservation in general relativity, which remain unresolved.

nomadreid
Gold Member
Messages
1,772
Reaction score
255
In Kip Thorne’s “Black Holes and Time Machines”, he outlines objections to using traversable wormholes, if they existed, as time machines, the main one being (roughly) that radiation could also time travel, and mount up to destroy the wormhole. But isn’t another objection the conservation of mass-energy? A photon could go back in time to meet itself from the past, suddenly giving two photons where there was only one.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
nomadreid said:
But isn’t another objection the conservation of mass-energy?
There is no such thing as global conservation of energy in general relativity unless special requirements are put on the space-time.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: nomadreid
Orodruin said:
There is no such thing as global conservation of energy in general relativity unless special requirements are put on the space-time.

Indeed!
In flat spacetime, energy is conserved as a consequence of the equations of objects' motion not depending on any absolute time, but only on relative times. This is one consequence of what's known as Noether's theorem.

If the spacetime is not flat, then there is no longer this time-translation symmetry, and energy need not be conserved.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: nomadreid
Thanks for the replies, Orodruin and jfizzix. That settles that. So I shall be content with the other objections to closed time-like curves (aka time machines).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
8K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
457
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K