Construction Cranes Radio Frequency Induction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of induced currents in construction cranes due to radio frequency (RF) signals from antennas located several kilometers away. Participants explore the mechanisms behind this occurrence, particularly in relation to different types of cranes and their grounding conditions. The conversation includes technical aspects of antenna theory, grounding practices, and the implications for safety in construction environments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that cranes can experience induced currents from distant antennas, particularly when the boom is positioned vertically, suggesting a tuning effect that may reradiate RF signals.
  • Others argue that effective grounding of the crane is crucial to prevent RF burns, but there is disagreement on whether cranes are adequately grounded in practice.
  • One participant mentions that RF grounding is a potential solution but may not always be feasible, indicating a need for further investigation into the phenomenon.
  • Concerns are raised about the possibility of electrical shorts or improper bonding within the crane's structure, which could lead to shocks or burns, challenging the assumption that grounding alone would prevent these issues.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the specific types of antennas involved and the conditions under which the induced currents occur, indicating a lack of consensus on the underlying causes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the causes of induced currents in cranes or the effectiveness of grounding solutions. Multiple competing views remain regarding the mechanisms at play and the adequacy of current grounding practices.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in understanding the specific conditions under which RF burns occur, including the type of crane and the nature of the generating antennas. There is also mention of impedance matching issues that complicate the grounding of cranes for RF currents.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to professionals in construction safety, electrical engineering, and telecommunications, particularly those involved in crane operations and RF interference issues.

  • #31
there is not enough science to set an standard for RF current induction

I take exception to this claim.
Indeed if you truly think this why did you come here?

I have told you some of my bckground, although I do not know any of yours. I had understood you had come to PF seeking scientific discussion and enlightenment but you seem to avoid any request for the necessary detail that would lead to such an aim.

When I was a young pup I was told

"Good Engineering is all about attention to detail."
 
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  • #32
:smile:I must clarified once again. SAR rates is measure based on power density which is good predictor for twa exposure levels over 6 minutes. At this point there is not a form of measurement as I understand (e field, h field, power density etc) that will predict the total current induced on a tower; for that reason the burden is put on new telecom tower installations within the prescribe radius (1km to 3km) to do the studies and take precaution to prevent reradiation. In the event of a crane induction (one example of many possible) there is not set standard as I mentioned before.

Berkeman look into AM Directional antenna arrays for the answer to your question.

This is my first posting on a forum of this kind, and have learned many valuable lessons from it. One is you are a very well knowledgeable group in your respective areas, but most of all TOUGH Crowd!:smile:
 
  • #33
SafetyConsult,
There is enough scientific information posted in this message to help you analyse the problem, and solve the problem. Its up to yourself if you choose to use the information.

Lot of people trying to help you solve this, people with different knowledge and from different scientific backgrounds.

John.
 
  • #34
I would definitely agreed with you John. I have enough to go on. I was hoping for a silver bullet.
 
  • #35
SafetyConsult said:
:smile:I must clarified once again. SAR rates is measure based on power density which is good predictor for twa exposure levels over 6 minutes. At this point there is not a form of measurement as I understand (e field, h field, power density etc) that will predict the total current induced on a tower; for that reason the burden is put on new telecom tower installations within the prescribe radius (1km to 3km) to do the studies and take precaution to prevent reradiation. In the event of a crane induction (one example of many possible) there is not set standard as I mentioned before.

Berkeman look into AM Directional antenna arrays for the answer to your question.

I am pretty familiar with antenna arrays. For AM radio transmitters, one of the most common is a 3-tower array, used for gain of a few dBi in the direction of the tower line. Using an array would not affect the definition of the near/far field by more than the added size of the antenna array, I don't think.

And I still think that with a simple field strength measurement at the frequency of interest around the crane area, you should be able to predict what the maximum currents will be in the crane's metal structure. You would just assume an efficient monopole element antenna as the model for the crane, and look to see how the metal structure sizes compared to resonant antenna lengths.

Glad that you are getting some useful info in the thread. The PF is a great place for discussing questions. :smile:
 

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