Contradiction in Relativistic Simultaneity in Taylor-Wheeler Spacetime Physics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of simultaneity in the context of relativistic physics as presented in Taylor and Wheeler's "Spacetime Physics." Participants explore the implications of lightning strikes occurring at the front and rear of a moving train, examining how different observers perceive the timing of these events. The scope includes theoretical interpretations of simultaneity, the role of light travel time, and the synchronization of clocks in different frames of reference.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the narrative in figure 3-1 contradicts the text regarding how events are recorded by clocks nearest to them, suggesting that the observer's conclusions may be flawed due to the travel time of light.
  • Others propose that as long as the observer accounts for light travel time, their conclusions will align with those of co-moving clocks at the event locations.
  • A participant mentions that the observer on the train perceives the front flash first, but questions whether this perception aligns with the embankment observer's view, emphasizing the frame-dependent nature of simultaneity.
  • Some participants clarify that in Taylor & Wheeler's framework, clocks in each frame are synchronized according to the Einstein convention, which may affect how events are timed in different frames.
  • One participant asserts that the observer on the train, being equidistant from both flashes at the moment of the strikes, should perceive the flashes simultaneously, challenging the claim that the front flash reaches the observer first due to the train's motion.
  • Another participant highlights that the laws of physics remain consistent within the train's frame, suggesting that the observer's perception of the timing of the flashes should not be influenced by the train's velocity relative to the embankment.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of simultaneity and the effects of light travel time, indicating that multiple competing interpretations remain unresolved. There is no consensus on whether the observer on the train perceives the lightning strikes as simultaneous or not.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of considering the synchronization of clocks and the effects of relative motion when discussing simultaneity, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the interpretation of the events and the application of the Einstein convention.

  • #61
ghwellsjr said:
,it cannot be true that the light arrives at the remote locations simultaneously for two observers with a speed difference between them.
Have you read post 55 and the related section of Einsteins 1905 Paper? Do you disagree with something in Einsteins analysis?
JM
 
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  • #62
No, I don't disagree with anything Einstein said or anything you quoted him as saying. Note that he talked about two different frames, the "stationary frame" and the "moving frame".

But you misquoted me, here is what I said:

"The reason you think it's true is because you are switching between frames for the two observers but in anyone frame, it cannot be true that the light arrives at the remote locations simultaneously for two observers with a speed difference between them."

Can't you see that this is in agreement with what Einstein said?
 

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