Convolution - calculation and drawing

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of convolution, specifically focusing on its calculation and graphical representation. Participants are exploring the mathematical formulation of convolution, its application in specific examples, and the interpretation of results through graphical analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding convolution, particularly the example provided, and requests clarification on the ranges of t and the graphical representation.
  • Another participant explains the convolution process using a specific integral formulation and describes how the overlap of two functions changes as the variable t varies.
  • The explanation includes piecewise definitions of the convolution result z(t) based on different ranges of t, detailing the integral calculations for each case.
  • There is a question regarding how the amplitude is determined and how the values on the y-axis are derived, indicating a need for further clarification on these aspects.
  • A later reply points out a potential misunderstanding regarding the order of the functions in the convolution, suggesting that the shapes may have been misrepresented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants are engaged in a collaborative exploration of convolution, with some agreement on the mathematical formulation and piecewise results. However, there are disagreements regarding the graphical representation and the interpretation of the functions involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the functions used in the convolution and their respective ranges. There are unresolved questions about the determination of amplitudes and the graphical representation of the convolution process.

aruwin
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Hi! I need your help with convolution. I am having problem understanding it. I don't understand the example, it shows the calculation and the drawing. Could you please explain the solution to me - why the ranges of t are taken that way and how does the drawing represent the answer?I'll show you one example, and one exercise (the one I need to solve).


Ignore the Japanese writing, it only says to "find z", and "when t=..."
 

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I will try to explain the convolution by analyzing it graphically. (you can see how convolution happen in this link http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Convolution_of_spiky_function_with_box2.gif)

The convolution is $z(t)= \int \limits_{-\infty}^{\infty} y(\tau)x(t-\tau) \;d\tau$

now take

[math] y(\tau) = \frac{B\tau}{T} \quad 0\leq \tau \leq T[/math]

[math] x(\tau) = A \quad 0\leq \tau\leq T \implies x(t-\tau) = A \quad t-T\leq \tau \leq t[/math]

above two function are shown in the below graph (remember the variable of the integral is $\tau$)View attachment 3428

Now we should see what happens to the integral ($z(t)$) when the value $t$ changes

(i) when $t\leq 0$

As the graph below suggest there is no overlapping in the $x(t-\tau)$ and $y(\tau)$
View attachment 3429View attachment 3431

Therefore $\int_{-\infty}^\infty x(t-\tau)y(\tau)$ is 0. Thus when $t\leq 0 \implies z(t)=0$

(ii) When $0<t\leq \tau$
View attachment 3427
View attachment 3433

As the graph shows the overlapping of two graphs starts at $\tau=0$ and ends at $\tau=t$.

Therefore the convolution at this scenario will be,

$z(t) = \int_0^t x(t-\tau)y(\tau) d\tau=\int_0^t A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$

Thus, when $$0<t\leq T \implies z(t) = \int_0^t A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$$

(iii) when $T<t\leq 2T$View attachment 3434

View attachment 3432

As the graphs show the overlapping always end at $T$ and starts at $t-T$. Therefore the limits of the convolution in this scenario changes as following

$\int\limits_{t-T}^{T} x(t-\tau)y(\tau) \;d\tau = \int\limits_{t-T}^T A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$

$$\therefore \text{when } T<t\leq 2T \implies z(t)=\int\limits_{t-T}^T A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$$

(iv) when $t>2T$

View attachment 3430

On this occasion also the overlapping does not occur (similar to t<0). Therefore the convolution is zero.

Thus $t>2T \implies z(t) =0$So eventually the piece-wise function of the z will be as following.

$$z(t)=\begin{cases}0 \quad t\leq 0 \\ A\frac{B}{2T}t^2 \quad 0<t\leq T \\ \frac{AB}{2T}(2tT-t^2)\quad T<t\leq 2T\\0 \quad t>2T \\ \end{cases}$$

View attachment 3436

Hope this will help to understand the convolution theory :)
 

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Last edited:
BAdhi said:
I will try to explain the convolution by analyzing it graphically. (you can see how convolution happen in this link http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Convolution_of_spiky_function_with_box2.gif)

The convolution is $z(t)= \int \limits_{-\infty}^{\infty} y(\tau)x(t-\tau) \;d\tau$

now take

[math] y(\tau) = \frac{B\tau}{T} \quad 0\leq \tau \leq T[/math]

[math] x(\tau) = A \quad 0\leq \tau\leq T \implies x(t-\tau) = A \quad t-T\leq \tau \leq t[/math]

above two function are shown in the below graph (remember the variable of the integral is $\tau$)View attachment 3428

Now we should see what happens to the integral ($z(t)$) when the value $t$ changes

(i) when $t\leq 0$

As the graph below suggest there is no overlapping in the $x(t-\tau)$ and $y(\tau)$
View attachment 3429View attachment 3431

Therefore $\int_{-\infty}^\infty x(t-\tau)y(\tau)$ is 0. Thus when $t\leq 0 \implies z(t)=0$

(ii) When $0<t\leq \tau$
View attachment 3427
View attachment 3433

As the graph shows the overlapping of two graphs starts at $\tau=0$ and ends at $\tau=t$.

Therefore the convolution at this scenario will be,

$z(t) = \int_0^t x(t-\tau)y(\tau) d\tau=\int_0^t A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$

Thus, when $$0<t\leq T \implies z(t) = \int_0^t A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$$

(iii) when $T<t\leq 2T$View attachment 3434

View attachment 3432

As the graphs show the overlapping always end at $T$ and starts at $t-T$. Therefore the limits of the convolution in this scenario changes as following

$\int\limits_{t-T}^{T} x(t-\tau)y(\tau) \;d\tau = \int\limits_{t-T}^T A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$

$$\therefore \text{when } T<t\leq 2T \implies z(t)=\int\limits_{t-T}^T A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$$

(iv) when $t>2T$

View attachment 3430

On this occasion also the overlapping does not occur (similar to t<0). Therefore the convolution is zero.

Thus $t>2T \implies z(t) =0$So eventually the piece-wise function of the z will be as following.

$$z(t)=\begin{cases}0 \quad t\leq 0 \\ A\frac{B}{2T}t^2 \quad 0<t\leq T \\ \frac{AB}{2T}(2tT-t^2)\quad T<t\leq 2T\\0 \quad t>2T \\ \end{cases}$$

View attachment 3436

Hope this will help to understand the convolution theory :)

Thank you for the explanation. But I still don't understand how you get the amplitude? How do you know the values of the y axis?
 
BAdhi said:
I will try to explain the convolution by analyzing it graphically. (you can see how convolution happen in this link http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Convolution_of_spiky_function_with_box2.gif)

The convolution is $z(t)= \int \limits_{-\infty}^{\infty} y(\tau)x(t-\tau) \;d\tau$

now take

[math] y(\tau) = \frac{B\tau}{T} \quad 0\leq \tau \leq T[/math]

[math] x(\tau) = A \quad 0\leq \tau\leq T \implies x(t-\tau) = A \quad t-T\leq \tau \leq t[/math]

above two function are shown in the below graph (remember the variable of the integral is $\tau$)View attachment 3428

Now we should see what happens to the integral ($z(t)$) when the value $t$ changes

(i) when $t\leq 0$

As the graph below suggest there is no overlapping in the $x(t-\tau)$ and $y(\tau)$
View attachment 3429View attachment 3431

Therefore $\int_{-\infty}^\infty x(t-\tau)y(\tau)$ is 0. Thus when $t\leq 0 \implies z(t)=0$

(ii) When $0<t\leq \tau$
View attachment 3427
View attachment 3433

As the graph shows the overlapping of two graphs starts at $\tau=0$ and ends at $\tau=t$.

Therefore the convolution at this scenario will be,

$z(t) = \int_0^t x(t-\tau)y(\tau) d\tau=\int_0^t A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$

Thus, when $$0<t\leq T \implies z(t) = \int_0^t A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$$

(iii) when $T<t\leq 2T$View attachment 3434

View attachment 3432

As the graphs show the overlapping always end at $T$ and starts at $t-T$. Therefore the limits of the convolution in this scenario changes as following

$\int\limits_{t-T}^{T} x(t-\tau)y(\tau) \;d\tau = \int\limits_{t-T}^T A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$

$$\therefore \text{when } T<t\leq 2T \implies z(t)=\int\limits_{t-T}^T A\frac{B}{T}\tau d\tau$$

(iv) when $t>2T$

View attachment 3430

On this occasion also the overlapping does not occur (similar to t<0). Therefore the convolution is zero.

Thus $t>2T \implies z(t) =0$So eventually the piece-wise function of the z will be as following.

$$z(t)=\begin{cases}0 \quad t\leq 0 \\ A\frac{B}{2T}t^2 \quad 0<t\leq T \\ \frac{AB}{2T}(2tT-t^2)\quad T<t\leq 2T\\0 \quad t>2T \\ \end{cases}$$

View attachment 3436

Hope this will help to understand the convolution theory :)
But you got the shapes the other way around. It's x(tau)y(t-tau).
 
Last edited:

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