Correct statement about thermodynamics process

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around thermodynamic processes, specifically focusing on the heat transfer and internal energy changes associated with processes A and B. Participants are exploring the implications of different types of thermodynamic processes, including adiabatic and cyclic processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to understand the heat transfer (Q) in process A, noting that it is not adiabatic and that both work (W) and change in internal energy (ΔU) are negative. Questions are raised about the implications of a thermodynamic cycle and the relationship between different processes within that cycle.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the relationship between processes A and B, with some participants suggesting that the entire cycle should be considered rather than just individual segments. Guidance has been offered regarding the application of the first law of thermodynamics to different segments of the cycle, although there is no explicit consensus on the interpretation of process A.

Contextual Notes

Participants are discussing the implications of starting and ending states in thermodynamic processes, with some confusion regarding the definitions and assumptions related to process A. The nature of the cycle and the specific paths taken (solid vs. dashed lines) are also under consideration.

songoku
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Homework Statement
An ideal gas is taken through two cycles shown in Figure a and b. In Figure a, the cycle consists of process A (solid line) and adiabatic process (dash line). In figure b, the cycle consists of process B (solid line) and isothermal process (dash line). Which of the following statements is true?
A) The heat of both processes A and B are released;
B) The heat of both processes A and B are absorbed;
C) The heat of process A is released, while the heat of process B is absorbed;
D) The heat of process A is absorbed, while the heat of process B is released.
Relevant Equations
ΔU = Q + W
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I know process B absorbs heat but I can't determine the heat of process A.

In adiabatic process, Q = 0 but process A is not adiabatic. I only know both W and ΔU will be negative for process A but how to know Q?

Thanks
 
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What is the value of ##\Delta U## when a gas undergoes a thermodynamic cycle, starting and ending in exactly the same thermodynamic state?
 
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Chestermiller said:
What is the value of ##\Delta U## when a gas undergoes a thermodynamic cycle, starting and ending in exactly the same thermodynamic state?
ΔU will be zero since there is no change in temperature. But sorry I don't understand the direction of the hint since process A does not start and end in exactly same thermodynamic state.

Thanks
 
For process A, I think they mean the entire cycle, not just the solid line. I think it also includes the dashed line.
 
Chestermiller said:
For process A, I think they mean the entire cycle, not just the solid line. I think it also includes the dashed line.
I think they mean the solid line. Please see below.
songoku said:
ΔU will be zero since there is no change in temperature. But sorry I don't understand the direction of the hint since process A does not start and end in exactly same thermodynamic state.
For process A, write the first law for the dashed and solid line:

##\Delta U_A^{\text{solid}}=Q_A^{\text{solid}}+W_A^{\text{solid}}##

##\Delta U_A^{\text{dashed}}=Q_A^{\text{dashed}}+W_A^{\text{dashed}}##

You know that ##\Delta U_A^{\text{solid}}=\Delta U_A^{\text{dashed}}##

What else do you know?
How do ##W_A^{\text{solid}}## and ##W_A^{\text{dashed}}## compare?

Repeat along similar lines with process B asking yourself the same questions.
 
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I understand.

Thank you very much for the help and explanation Chestermiller and kuruman
 

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