Coupled pendulum with external force?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of coupled pendulums under the influence of an external force, particularly in the context of a mechanical analog of a superconducting parametric amplifier. Participants explore how the frequencies of the pendulums are affected by this external driving force, considering both theoretical and practical implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the frequencies of the coupled pendulums would be determined when oscillating at their natural frequencies with an external force applied.
  • Another participant states that the period and frequency of a pendulum depend on its length and gravity, suggesting that changes in length due to the external force would affect the frequency.
  • A different participant proposes a mathematical relationship for the change in period with respect to length, indicating a potential dependency on the external force.
  • Some participants clarify that the system depicted involves coupled oscillators rather than independent pendulums, which complicates the analysis of frequency changes.
  • There is speculation about the existence of a differential equation that could describe the motion of the system, linking it to the behavior of the amplifier.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the motion of harmonically driven coupled oscillators is complex, noting the presence of multiple resonant frequencies depending on the coupling and natural frequencies of the oscillators.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the system (coupled oscillators vs. independent pendulums) and the implications of the external force on frequency changes. There is no consensus on how the frequencies are determined or the specific effects of the external force.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the system, with unresolved mathematical relationships and dependencies on definitions such as the nature of coupling and the specifics of the external force.

questionner
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1576363516618.png

I got this picture from a superconducting parametric amplifier text I was reading.
(The picture is a mechanical analog of a non-degenerate parametric amplifier.)

If the balls(red and blue) were oscillating at their own natural frequencies, and an external force is driven(purple), how would the balls' frequencies be determined?
If the problem is too sophisticated, then assuming that wp = wa + wb, then would the balls just get amplified with wa and wb conserved?

(Actually the second question is what I am interested:))
 
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The period, and thus the frequency of a pendulum, depends upon length and gravity (##T=2pi \sqrt{L/g}##). So, I would state that ##dT/dt## would be proportional to ##dL/dt##, the length being the parameter the force is changing.
 
I worked it out that it could be ##dT/dL = (2pi^2)/(Tg)##.
 
Then your force would change the length ##dL/dt=-k*dy/dt##.
 
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@questionner: the picture you show is of three coupled oscillators, not two with an independent external force !
 
osilmag said:
The period, and thus the frequency of a pendulum, depends upon length and gravity (##T=2pi \sqrt{L/g}##). So, I would state that ##dT/dt## would be proportional to ##dL/dt##, the length being the parameter the force is changing.
Okay thank you for the reply. So is the answer yes? or no?
 
BvU said:
@questionner: the picture you show is of three coupled oscillators, not two with an independent external force !
Actually the right most one is not a pendulum. Sorry for the misunderstanding, but it's a two coupled oscillator!
 
questionner said:
I got this picture from a superconducting parametric amplifier text I was reading.

Does it contain a differential equation that describes the behavior of the amplifier?

(The picture is a mechanical analog of a non-degenerate parametric amplifier.)

Then there should be an analogous differential equation that describes its motion.
 
questionner said:
Okay thank you for the reply. So is the answer yes? or no?

You asked how the pendulum frequencies would be changed and I put forward a possible way to find how they're changing. I was speculating how the contraption works since I have limited info on the driver. To me it looks like a driven spring.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
questionner said:
Summary:: Here's an interesting situation(picture): when the two pendulums(red and blue) oscillate and there is an external force(purple), how would their frequencies change?

View attachment 254134
I got this picture from a superconducting parametric amplifier text I was reading.
(The picture is a mechanical analog of a non-degenerate parametric amplifier.)

If the balls(red and blue) were oscillating at their own natural frequencies, and an external force is driven(purple), how would the balls' frequencies be determined?
If the problem is too sophisticated, then assuming that wp = wa + wb, then would the balls just get amplified with wa and wb conserved?

(Actually the second question is what I am interested:))
No. Motion of harmonically driven 2 coupled oscillators is more complicated. There are generally two resonant frequencies of the system ω',ω" depending on ωab and coupling (the expressions are not very short/nice ). If ωp=ω' or ωp=ω" than the amplification condition occurs
 

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