COVID COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[Astronuc]

Some sites (and media healdines) have State of Texas passing 1 million COVID-19 cases. Officially, the state's dashboard reports 974,230 positive cases as of November 10, 4:50 pm EST. Covidtracking.com reports this number. ncov2019.live reports a higher number 1,042,439, which apparently includes some probable or uncertainty estimate. Certainly, fatalities in Texas are reported at 18,863 while ncov2019.live reports 19,453 fatalities. Texas and California are both approaching 1 million cases, with Florida in third place.

The city of El Paso has brought in mobile morgues (cold storage trucks).
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/us/el-paso-covid-mobile-morgues/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/coronavirus-hospitalizations-el-paso-texas.html

 

[mfb]

Overall confirmed cases in the US reached 10 million this week (the day depends on who you ask).
Hospitalizations have been going up faster than in the July wave and reached a new record of 62,000.
Numbers seem to go up almost everywhere, even in New York.

Looks like new cases in Germany reached their peak and began to drop again in the last week. France might be beyond its peak, too.
Belgium's new case numbers have dropped from a ridiculous value to a still high value. Compared to Germany (with 7.5 times the population) they have almost as many confirmed cases and more deaths.
Sweden's daily new cases (upwards trend) are now as large as Belgium's daily new cases (downwards trend).

https://reuters.com/article/us-heal...as-testing-struggles-to-keep-up-idUSKBN27Q1U5

 

[Astronuc]

Numbers seem to go up almost everywhere, even in New York.

New York reported 4820 new cases today. They haven't seen a number like that since May 1 when they reported 4663 cases, and then the cases were trending down. Interestingly, the case rate is increasing, but the mortality rate is not increasing concurrently.

Washington state reported the first confirmed case (January 21), but the cases didn't take off until late February. New York reported the first case at the end of February, but then it took off within 3 days, initially in the NY City metropolitan area (including Westchester County), then spread to the rest of the state as folks traveled to and from NY City from other parts of the state, or in some cases, traveled out of state.

Meanwhile in the US

                Cumulative   New
   Date         Pos Cases    Cases
Nov 11, 2020    10,267,081  144,270
Nov 10, 2020    10,122,811  130,989

 

[nsaspook]

Get ready and stock up on supplies early.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/bid...ould-control-pandemic-and-revive-economy.html

HEALTH AND SCIENCE
U.S. lockdown of 4 to 6 weeks could control pandemic and revive economy

A nationwide lockdown would drive the number of new cases and hospitalizations down to manageable levels while the world awaits a vaccine, he told Yahoo Finance on Wednesday.

“We could pay for a package right now to cover all of the wages, lost wages for individual workers for losses to small companies to medium-sized companies or city, state, county governments. We could do all of that,” he said. “If we did that, then we could lockdown for four-to-six weeks.”

We had to destroy the village to save it.

 

[mfb]

These plans could evolve a lot until January.

A 4 week lockdown wouldn't destroy the village, and it would reduce cases dramatically. All the essential shops would stay open, obviously.

 

[nsaspook]

These plans could evolve a lot until January.

A 4 week lockdown wouldn't destroy the village, and it would reduce cases dramatically. All the essential shops would stay open, obviously.

I think it must be longer to be effective as a until vaccine measure and must target what's really causing the spread today. Community transmission is so widespread (even in places with strict mask and distancing enforcement) only strict, near isolation with direct family will reduce cases dramatically quickly.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/at-dinner-parties-and-game-nights-casual-american-life-is-fueling-the-coronavirus-surge/ar-BB1aWRBU

Many earlier Coronavirus clusters were linked to nursing homes and crowded nightclubs. But public health officials nationwide say case investigations are increasingly leading them to small, private social gatherings. This behind-doors transmission trend reflects pandemic fatigue and widening social bubbles, experts say — and is particularly insidious because it is so difficult to police and likely to increase as temperatures drop and holidays approach.

Even with a 'light' approach it's not going to be 'nice' or easy.
https://www.dw.com/en/how-are-people-in-berlin-handling-lockdown-light/av-55539448

 

[DennisN]

Chris Stapleton musically describes his Covid cointainment efforts and experience here. (at 10:03) (I just had to share it ).

 

[mfb]

I think it must be longer to be effective as a until vaccine measure and must target what's really causing the spread today.

4 weeks of R=0.7 "cover" 8 weeks of R=1.14, for example. If you have these in sequence you end up with as many daily infections as before but three months later. 6 weeks would cover 12 weeks, for a total of 4.5 months. That's a long time to ramp up vaccine production.

 

[atehundel]

Get ready and stock up on supplies early.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/bid...ould-control-pandemic-and-revive-economy.html

We had to destroy the village to save it.

Ridiculous fearmongering sentiment.

Aside from the fact that the above both verges on political territory and also asserts a baseless and largely contested scenario (movement restrictions/closures=total lockdown=total economic devestation...not at all a given), the commentary also seems to suggest that it is more favorable to let the wildfire burn out of control, and if it destroys the village, well, it is the fire's fault, not the firefighters who stood by with their fingers crossed.

I don't know how much more clear it needs to be. Losing thousands of wage earners with decades of productivity ahead of them to death or permanent health impacts WILL hurt the economy. Losing thousands of mortgage paying individuals, product and service consumers, business owners WILL hurt the economy. Stop acting like it is a binary choice here. It is ignorant and deceptive.

EDIT:

I think it must be longer to be effective

It's probably worth noting that had the US actually imposed some meaningful degree of restriction earlier there may not be the prospect of a long-term closure on the table now. It has always been disingenuous to call any measure in this country a lockdown as none have resembled anything of the sort. Business and movement have continued largely unfettered for many, many months, even in the face of orders to shelter in place. It is almost as if you believe that we have already taken drastic measures, and since they seem to have failed you trot out the boogeyman of people welded into their apartments and police on streetcorners (that would never happen here).

The truth is, any reasonable attemt to tamp an outbreak down early on has been met with politically charged fury along the lines of "BUT THE ECONOMY! MY FREEDOMS! ITS NOT EVEN A BIG DEAL!". Now that it's so far gone the only real solution just might be an actual, enforced measure similar to a lockdown, those rejecting the reality staring them right in the face are railing against the same strawman once again without appreciating how that approach got us where we are in the first place. It's time to stop letting deluded people interefere with the management of this crisis.

 

[stefan r]

I'm feeling pretty pessimistic. The case rate is starting to look like a hockey stick graph again. Thanksgiving is coming up. If the trend persists Christmas is going to be a massacre.

 

[russ_watters]

Ridiculous fearmongering sentiment...

also asserts a baseless and largely contested scenario (movement restrictions/closures=total lockdown=total economic devestation...not at all a given)...

Since we've already done a pretty hard lockdown, we know exactly what the economic fallout was and will be again if we repeat (at a minimum -- doing it a second time would almost certainly be worse). The first one caused a 31% drop in GDP; the worst economic quarter in history.

I don't know how much more clear it needs to be. Losing thousands of wage earners with decades of productivity ahead of them to death or permanent health impacts WILL hurt the economy. Losing thousands of mortgage paying individuals, product and service consumers, business owners WILL hurt the economy.

We know those numbers too; we know that the vast majority of those who died were consumers only, not producers; Old people. 79% were age 65+.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do a lockdown, but just like we shouldn't downplay the number of lives at stake, we shouldn't downplay the economic damage of the choice either.

 

[jack action]

the commentary also seems to suggest that it is more favorable to let the wildfire burn out of control, and if it destroys the village, well, it is the fire's fault, not the firefighters who stood by with their fingers crossed.

Why must there always be someone to blame when something happens?

Stop acting like it is a binary choice here.

[...]

Now that it's so far gone the only real solution just might be an actual, enforced measure similar to a lockdown, those rejecting the reality staring them right in the face are railing against the same strawman once again without appreciating how that approach got us where we are in the first place. It's time to stop letting deluded people interefere with the management of this crisis.

I wish my life was so easy, having only one binary choice: either I'm deluded or I'm not. If people don't agree with me, just 'force' them to do as I think. Life is so simple.

Considering everything happening (including how people react to this crisis), I personally chose to stay home and I let others choose what is best for their life. I would've like to help protect the more vulnerable people, but apparently it is better to disrupt everyone's life equally rather than only investing efforts on a few. Even though it is not working because nobody takes into account the fact that not everyone have the same needs/priorities at the same time. It is so sad that people don't trust others to do the right thing; What's the point of being part of a society when you don't trust its members?

Winter is coming, I'll wait inside until the snowstorm is over. Wake me up when the vaccine cured everyone's fear. No needs to fight windmills for me.

 

[russ_watters]

I'm feeling pretty pessimistic. The case rate is starting to look like a hockey stick graph again. Thanksgiving is coming up. If the trend persists Christmas is going to be a massacre.

Here's where I'm at with the current situation:

I think more aggressive containment efforts are necessary right now. But what, exactly, that means/should be, I'm not sure.

I keep hearing from government/news media that the current outbreak escalation is caused primarily by small family/friend gatherings, not schools, restaurants and businesses. If that's true, then another lockdown might not just be futile, it could make the situation worse.

But I'm not sure I believe the media/government, and I haven't seen the data myself, if it is even public. My thought is that they seem to be basing their judgement on contact tracing. But contact tracing only works on small, clear infection trails. It doesn't work on community spread, where you don't know the person who infected you, or it could have been anyone of a large number of people. And it is disastrously overwhelmed/ineffective. So it is possible that they believe small family/friend gatherings are the problem because that's all they can detect.

Bottom line, I agree with you; we're in for a rough holiday season.

 

[russ_watters]

Considering everything happening (including how people react to this crisis), I personally chose to stay home and I let others choose what is best for their life. I would've like to help protect the more vulnerable people, but apparently it is better to disrupt everyone's life equally rather than only investing efforts on a few. Even though it is not working because nobody takes into account the fact that not everyone have the same needs/priorities at the same time. It is so sad that people don't trust others to do the right thing; What's the point of being part of a society when you don't trust its members?

The news quoted a poll just now that said 50% of people would ignore increased restrictions due to "covid fatigue". I don't see a path forward here that would result in a substantial improvement in the situation -- at least not a path forward people are willing to consider. Of course, if people were willing to consider such a path forward, we wouldn't need it.

 

[bhobba]

After the total stuff up by the Victorian government, with terrible loss of life and economic havoc, Australia has got the pandemic under control again - only 2 locally acquired in the last 7 days. So it is still there, but well suppressed at the moment. But bring on the vaccine I say. We have 10 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine on the way, but, to the embarrassment of our government, they forgot to tell the electorate it has not been tested on the group that needs it most - the elderly and vulnerable - rather embarrassing when it came out. The UQ vaccine is on track to be rolled by end 2021 - but they are hoping mid 2021. Already 50 million doses are in the works just waiting for the go ahead and results are, at least so far, it is most effective in the high risk group:
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/university-of-queensland-coronavirus-vaccine-trials-prove-successful-on-elderly/news-story/414925bd8710ceef76a1fcdf9c2d7b02

Personally, and I only do it because it is harmless so there is no downside, I take the Quercetin prophylaxis of Dr Zev Zelenco:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i7C_6H1Yq0u8lrzmnzt5N1JHg-b5Hb0E3nLixedgwpQ/edit

Whether it works or not is another matter. But his treatment has recently been published in a peer reviewed journal (even though the link I will give is from the preprint server):
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202007.0025/v1

This HCQ thing refuses to go away one way or another - but the latest protocol of 400mg HCQ, 50mg Zinc and 200mg of Doxycycline for 5 days, I have been assured by my GP and Rheumatologist, is perfectly safe - just with 200mg Doxycycline watch the diarrhea.

Still that is just one study, others have different outcomes. Nothing has been settled.

Thanks
Bill

 

[atehundel]

Since we've already done a pretty hard lockdown...

Who is "we"? Because a great many areas of the nation barely closed this spring, if at all. Many places had their shelter or closure orders overturned. Many areas had orders with no teeth, providing no incentive to abide by them (except of course the prospect of controlling the pandemic). Spring break 2020 essentially invalidated your entire arguement, making anything that follows merely a cascade of dreck unrelated to the reality of the situation we are all in. It has been made very clear that if "lockdown" is imposed in one region, determined people will simply visit another region without the restrictions in place to meet their perceived needs. Those people bring the outbreak with them.

The arguements you tote out regarding our supposed kowledge of the possible effects of "lockdown" based on previous events are similarly shaky. You essentially blame 100% of the economic downturn early in the pandemic on lockdowns without considering even obvious additional contributions to that effect. What sort of other things might have taken a toll on the economy, you might ask? How about global uncertainty in the face of an emerging pandemic? How about a gross failure of the highest authority in the land to manage a remotely coherent or even logical strategy in the face of an emerging pandemic? How about the fears that were present relating to a largely unknown and unpredictable disease, do you think they even had the slightest of impact on decisions that tend to drive the market? Your cluelessness is highlighted by the fact that even though large areas of the country more or less stayed the course through the rise of the pandemic, the economic damage and other things like shortages were felt fairly broadly and almost immediately.

We also know that a majority of deaths are in elderly populations (setting aside for the moment whether "overwhelmingly" in this instance may be misapplied or at least not indicative of the whole story). What you seem to disregard is that in addition to there being some number of fatalities in other age groups, there are a great many other ways that the future earning potential of a number of individuals could be affected in both the short and long term by infection. It is reasonable to acknowledge that predictions of the magnitude of this aspect is less knowable with the limited time information has been available than the impact that deaths themselves have had. This is before we even account for the immedate effects of lost productivity as workers become infected and they themself or possibly other workers associated with them cannot perform their jobs.

You need to get serious and stop making mountains out of molehills when it comes to the formulation of your contrarian arguement. You build a lot of big tables on some pretty flimsy sticks, and seem to rely on a wall of text obscuring the weakness of your position. Attitudes that seem to reject what is staring them right in the face is what has gotten the situation in the US to where it is right now. Even now there is widespread percetption that not only have quite grand and extreme measures been already taken, but that fact is being offered as proof that it is not worth taking any exceptional measure since the pandemic continues to spin out of control. This has authorities in both public and private endeavors chasing their tails, as they attempt to both satisfy those concerned that we are racing towards a tipping point whereafter we will see a new level of carnage as well as those individuals who can't appreciate the utter comprehensive failure that is illustrated by the narrative of "well I've changed a lot, I hardly do anything anymore, oh well had dart league the other night, and so and so was over to visit the other day, and yeah this and that at work, and got to go to so and so's wedding reception, yeah cause I wouldn't if it was anyone else's, but..." and so on and so on.

 

[nsaspook]

https://www.kptv.com/news/gov-brown-announces-covid-19-freeze-for-two-weeks-businesses-activities-to-be-limited-or/article_b1b31a8e-25e9-11eb-b314-1fee4812e39f.html

Friday’s freeze measures are far more sweeping for the state. They include:

• Limiting social get-togethers (indoors and outdoors) to no more than six people, total, from no more than two households.
• Limiting faith-based organizations to a maximum of 25 people indoors or 50 people outdoors.
• Limiting restaurants and bars to take-out only.
• Closing gyms and fitness organizations.
• Closing indoor recreational facilities, museums, indoor entertainment activities, and indoor pools and sports courts.
• Closing outdoor recreational facilities, zoos, gardens, aquariums, outdoor entertainment activities, and outdoor pools.
• Limiting grocery stores and pharmacies to a maximum of 75% capacity and encouraging curbside pick-up.
• Limiting retail stores and retail malls (indoor and outdoor) to a maximum of 75% capacity and encouraging curbside pick-up.
• Closing venues (that host or facilitate indoor or outdoor events).
• Requiring all businesses to mandate work-from-home to the greatest extent possible and closing offices to the public.
• Prohibiting indoor visiting in long-term care facilities.

This is a restrictive lockdown that will likely be longer than two weeks if cases keep increasing.

 

[mfb]

and will be again if we repeat

The proposal is not to repeat what was done before:

[Osterholm] said the government could borrow enough money to pay for a package that would cover lost income for individuals and governments during a shutdown.

(at a minimum -- doing it a second time would almost certainly be worse).

This is purely a hypothetical scenario, but I don't think a repetition (that no one plans!) would be worse. The first time everything was chaotic and unexpected. It's still somewhat chaotic but way less than in April.
And of course the economic downturn started before the government measures and went way beyond their impact. You can't assign all of the economic downturn to a specific set of government measures.

I keep hearing from government/news media that the current outbreak escalation is caused primarily by small family/friend gatherings, not schools, restaurants and businesses. If that's true, then another lockdown might not just be futile, it could make the situation worse.

Closing a specific set of businesses is not a lockdown (@nsaspook). A true lockdown - what we had in Italy for example - would ban the gatherings of people not living in the same household. The virus doesn't live long within individual households before everyone gets immune. If you can reduce the household-to-household spread you reduce the overall spread.

So it is possible that they believe small family/friend gatherings are the problem because that's all they can detect.

They are not completely stupid and they didn't start doing this yesterday. They see an increase in traced contacts from small gatherings relative to what happened before.

What's the point of being part of a society when you don't trust its members?

If everything would work based on trust we wouldn't need any laws. You think that will work? In some aspects I trust other members, but in aspects where trust has shown to not work I prefer having laws.

 

[nsaspook]

...
Closing a specific set of businesses is not a lockdown (@nsaspook). A true lockdown - what we had in Italy for example - would ban the gatherings of people not living in the same household.
...

https://www.kptv.com/news/brown-inslee-and-newsom-issue-recommended-14-day-travel-quarantine-for-west-coast/article_5832de18-25cb-11eb-ac16-5f3cc94d030b.html

SALEM, OR (KPTV) – The governors of Oregon, Washington and California have jointly announced new travel advisories for their states to combat the spread of COVID-19, which include a recommended 14-day quarantine after travel out of each state.

On Friday, Oregon Gov. Kate Brown, Washington Gov. Jay Inslee and California Gov. Gavin Newsom issued the recommended advisories, “urging visitors entering their states or returning home from travel outside these states to self-quarantine to slow the spread of the virus.”

We still have freedom of movement but for Oregon, with so far lower cases than most states, it sure is a lockdown (‘freeze’ as in stop) as it closes almost all indoor/outdoor commercial entertainment activities.

 

[mfb]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lockdown

a temporary condition imposed by governmental authorities (as during the outbreak of an epidemic disease) in which people are required to stay in their homes and [...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockdown

A lockdown is a requirement for people to stay where they are

Closing some businesses and issuing travel recommendations is not a lockdown.

 

[nsaspook]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lockdown
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LockdownClosing some businesses and issuing travel recommendations is not a lockdown.

OK, "lockdown light" like in Germany.

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germany-to-impose-one-month-partial-lockdown/a-55421241

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Germany's state premiers announced on Wednesday a new partial lockdown to begin on Monday, November 2.

The so-called nationwide "lockdown light" is a less intense version of the measures that brought German society and economic activity to a standstill in the spring.

Shortly after Merkel's announcement, French President Emmanuel Macron announced a new lockdown across France.

 

[mfb]

We had the discussion about the refrigeration needs of BioNTech's vaccine before, we see the results in the planned distribution now: Pfizer vaccine: Over 80% of doses already sold to world’s richest countries

Many of the world’s poorer nations do not have the technology and facilities to meet this [cooling] requirement, meaning they will be unable to roll out any doses of the Pfizer vaccine they do receive on the same scale as their richer counterparts.

But at the same time people try to get this vaccine manufactured by more companies to get it at least to everyone where the cooling chain can be organized.

OK, "lockdown light" like in Germany.

And they didn't call it lockdown because that was something different.
Italy blocked roads, stopped trains and banned all outdoor activities that were not absolutely necessary. That included just going for a walk.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I keep hearing from government/news media that the current outbreak escalation is caused primarily by small family/friend gatherings, not schools, restaurants and businesses. If that's true, then another lockdown might not just be futile, it could make the situation worse.

I have not heard that, but if the premise is correct, your conclusions follow.

It's hard to argue that the lockdown rules are completely science-based. For example, the prohibition of cover charges in NYC bars. As we all know, cover charges kill.

 

[nsaspook]

Call it what you want, it's going to hurt people that have busted their behinds to do the right thing with zero compensation for those efforts.

A typical local business response.
https://www.kptv.com/news/oregon-business-community-reacts-to-new-covid-19-guidelines/article_5689a2bc-261c-11eb-9648-2bca84e93781.html

Willamette Valley Vineyards founder and CEO Jim Bernau says what was laid out Friday is frustrating.

“This is absolutely the wrong decision for the governor to make,” Bernau said.

His frustration stems from the new guidelines that will limit what his business can do.

“We have not had one case contact traced back to our winery, none of our employees have contacted the workplace or in communication with our guests,” Bernau said.He adds the winery has taken every stop possible, including a NASA grade UV air filtration system to a special film on surfaces to kill viruses.

“We have spent over $50,000 just ourselves in our small business putting into effect these levels of safety,” Bernau said.

Willamette Valley Vineyards recently bought igloos to offer outdoor, safe seating for guests to enjoy food and wine in.

“We just recently purchased these igloos, we have installed igloos outside where guests can stay inside their family bubble, their safety bubble and still come out to the winery and enjoy food and wine,” Bernau said.

But now, under these new restrictions, they won’t be able to use until restrictions are eased.

My youngest daughter takes martial arts in a small class that spent thousands on extra equipment and class reconfiguration to keep everyone safe. Now they are looking at a least a month of downtime that IMO will have zero effect on the irresponsible youth cases going up or down.
https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/11/why-are-oregons-covid-19-cases-rising-so-fast.html

Why is Oregon seeing a surge in Coronavirus cases? “Two words: social gatherings,” said Dr. Dean Sidelinger, state epidemiologist, on Friday.
...
The Oregon Health Authority said Thursday that small social gatherings are acting “as a catalyst” for transmission of the coronavirus.

Without in-class school this have been one of the few things she had as an out of home activity. The mental health costs of these restrictions is high.

 

[mfb]

Call it what you want, it's going to hurt people that have busted their behinds to do the right thing with zero compensation for those efforts.

From the news you linked:

Shutting down businesses and paying people for lost wages for four to six weeks

 

[PeroK]

After the total stuff up by the Victorian government, with terrible loss of life and economic havoc, Australia has got the pandemic under control again - only 2 locally acquired in the last 7 days.

If the Australian government has messed up (35 deaths per million), what do you think the Beligian government as been doing (1215 deaths per million)? And France lost more people only yesterday than Australia has in total.

Your government has worked wonders. You have to give credit where credit's due.

 

[stefan r]

In the 1770s George Washington inoculated the continental army with small pox. This was actual live virus. Infection via a small cut in the skin makes the resulting infection less severe.

If we are considering a shutdown along with its economic consequences and if we are also seriously considering another round of trillion dollar stimulus spending we have some options. We could invite all of the young, healthy, and willing to 3 or 4+ week parties in places like Los Vegas or Disney world. (perhaps church camp if you must). In Pennsylvania we have music fest most summers. We can stretch it to 4 weeks of free hotel, food, concert tickets, and medical care. Everyone elderly or immune compromised who is living in festival cities would need to be evacuated. You get the first food/hotel/ticket voucher packet when you take the first micro-dose of active virus. You keep getting vouchers while testing positive.

Clearly the body count would be high. If we go for herd immunity then we have clearly failed. Failed horribly. However, we have averaged 30,000 deaths a month and it is starting to look worse. A few million extra immune people is a few million closer to herd immunity. The "victims" would have a low fatality rate because of the low initial dose and because the initial dose came through the least dangerous route. If you know the exact time of infection you can target it with anti-viral drugs early. The best veteran doctors and nurses from Covid wards around the country/region can staff the hospitals near the festivals.

 

[bhobba]

Your government has worked wonders. You have to give credit where credit's due.

Overall yes. But it could have been much better if not for what happened in Victoria which was a total stuff up. Before the quarantine debace Victoria had 20 deaths. Now it is under control again it has over 800 deaths, nearly all of which could have been avoided. That is what makes many Australians 'mad'; it was all avoidable by simply having a good efficient bureaucracy.

Thanks
Bill

 

[nsaspook]

From the news you linked:

That's unemployment insurance for workers if they are not independent contractors.
https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/unemployment-insurance

The business owners don't get a dime as the state has no money to give.

https://www.salemreporter.com/posts...-oregon-gov-kate-brown-orders-state-to-freeze

Brown acknowledged the order would come with a staggering economic cost and said blunting that impact will require action like the federal relief bill Congress passed in the spring.

Now close personal services like barbershops, hair salons and massage parlors get to stay open.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oregon/articles/2020-11-13/oregon-gov-kate-brown-announces-14-day-statewide-freeze

“The hardest part last time was not closing down or washing my hands more, the hardest part was laying off 50 people,” he said. “So to have to do this again is hard to even think about.”
Caraeff had to lay off his employees and has since rehired all but two of them. He has spent the last weeks retrofitting his establishments for outdoor dining in Oregon’s wet winter weather.
He said the latest closure order will be devastating for him and his employees.
Under the new orders, all businesses will be required to close their offices to the public and mandate work-from-home “to the greatest extent possible," Brown said.
The freeze does not apply to barber shops, hair salons, congregate homeless sheltering, outdoor recreation and sports, youth programs, childcare, and K-12 schools that are already open.

and there is the criminal legal threat of enforcement that's a paper tiger for actual violations.
https://www.kptv.com/oregon-governor-to-utilize-law-enforcement-to-enforce-new-covid-19-freeze-restrictions/video_e69501d9-a0b8-57a1-aa48-b51c6fe20f12.html
https://www.heraldandnews.com/news/...cle_1b0a6d82-a999-5b60-b67c-1506e5e363a6.html

Klamath County law enforcement leaders don’t plan to enforce the gathering limits.
“The Klamath County Sheriff’s Office will not be enforcing any of the governor’s mandates,” Sheriff Chris Kaber said. “We haven’t from the beginning and it’s not our responsibility to enforce those.”

Most local law enforcement has said, they won't do it.

I see the need for a crackdown to keep medical services from being overloaded but we shouldn't be shocked that the exponential growth in cases is not stopped by these types of measures.

 

[atehundel]

Call it what you want, it's going to hurt people that have busted their behinds to do the right thing with zero compensation for those efforts.

No, it's not a matter of "calling it what you want". It's no more proper to call a bus a car or refer to a cat as a canid. The only reason to refer to something as a lockdown when it is no such thing is to add weight to a position by making measures sound more restrictive than they actually are. What's more, if finance was the only position to make an argument from, a genuine lockdown where most individuals are forcibly restricted to their homes would likely make the most sense, as it would maximize the effectiveness of the control measures and arguably result in the shortest time interval they would have to be implimented. We will not do something like this in the United States. The desirable effects are too far offset by the fundamental trampling of the population's freedom of movement. So we can all stop referring to a "lockdown" as a measure to be considered in the US. To do otherwise is simply an appeal to fear.

Since we have staked more value on individual freedoms than other nations we are forced to apply other more imperfect measures which bring their own set of impacts on business and the economy. It's a trade-off. But it promises at least a somewhat better outcome than to just step back and leave the situation to fate. And it's foolish to argue that early measures were imperfect as some counter to further financial assistance legislation. I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that nobody is being hurt by the public closures, but much disagreement is stalling further attempts to address all groups impacted. Again, the inability of top-level leadership to get on a footing to provide relief is deepening the problem, however this should not be taken to invalidate the necessity of measures taken to mitigate the scale of the health crisis. Time is not on our side either way, but in one case the expected benefits are more easily realized.