COVID COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[WWGD]

My son had to use an ambulance and after his insurance paid whatever IT paid, he was stuck with a bill for $1,500 and I've heard of worse. Check with your insurance company.

I heard many people carry Dnr ( Do not resuscitate) cards or similar because they prefer to risk death or illness than financial ruin.

 

[Keith_McClary]

Some comedy to lighten things up a bit

 

[WWGD]

This seems like a good up to date source of data:
worldometers.info/corona

 

[phinds]

This seems like a good up to date source of data:
worldometers.info/corona

and here is the ACTUAL link as a clickable link: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Unfortunately the one critical statistic that they don't have, that makes the statistics they DO have questionable, is the number of tests per country.

 

[WWGD]

Yes, I don't know why it was not clickable.

 

[Astronuc]

CDC recommends washing hands with soap and water whenever possible because handwashing reduces the amounts of all types of germs and chemicals on hands. But if soap and water are not available, using a hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol can help you avoid getting sick and spreading germs to others. The guidance for effective handwashing and use of hand sanitizer in community settings was developed based on data from a number of studies.
https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/show-me-the-science-hand-sanitizer.html

One can make one's own hand sanitizer. Alcohol can be bought at supermakets and pharmacies, like RiteAid or Walgreens in the US, or equivalent in other nations.

 

[DennisN]

It could also be dyhration + exhaustion + HEAVY caffeine use in my case.

I had had: a.) diarrhea the past few days + b.) lots of soda (caffeine - which is a diuretic that makes you urinate) + c.) in 95 degree hot summer weather. That combo made me so weak and dehydrated that I collapsed.

I did have diarrhea too earlier this week and have also been exhausted and on a caffeine binge (vicious cycle, as I take more caffeine the more tired I am)...so that's all on my mind.

Why are you drinking so much coffee?
Let me repeat that:
Why are you drinking so much coffee?

Here are some very common side effects of drinking too much coffee:

• Anxiety (because coffee stimulates the sympathetic nervous system which is responsible for our "fight-or flight" response)
• Dehydration
• Diarrhea
• Difficulty sleeping

(and I know this very well from personal experience, so I don't blame you )

If I were you, I would cut down on the coffee!

Nowadays, I personally drink only one or two cups of coffee and AFTER I have eaten breakfast.
At other times, I only drink decaffinated coffee. This has been very, very helpful for me personally.

Edit: I removed "drastically" from this post due to the post by @Rive below.

 

[Rive]

If I were you, I would drastically cut down on the coffee!

Just be careful.
I got the 'muscle pain' part. It was no fun.

 

[DennisN]

Just be careful.
I got the 'muscle pain' part. It was no fun.

Good point! It was long ago now that I cut down on coffee, so I don't remember if I got side effects or not from cutting down on it.

 

[Rive]

It's the 'drastic' part what goes that way. Just one cup was able to cure it within half a day when I finally figured out what is it about.

Ps.: I would also throw in heart rhythm problems as side effect of excess caffeine consumption.

 

[jim mcnamara]

Long term excessive caffeine consumption may lead to ideopathic osteoporosis, i.e., a clinical observation -- bone thinning in patient populations that are considered too young to have the problem.

Example: Effects of caffeine on bone and the calcium economy.
link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12204390

 

[kyphysics]

If I were you, I would cut down on the coffee!

Tea and soda mostly. Not much of a coffee drinker.

I am a habitual soda drinker and tea and coffee drinker when I pull all-nighter type stuff. I use it for alertness.

 

[DennisN]

@kyphysics :

And here's a guideline article: Caffeine: How much is too much? (Mayo Clinic)

You may want to cut back if you're drinking more than 4 cups of caffeinated coffee a day (or the equivalent) and you have side effects such as:

• Headache
• Insomnia
• Nervousness
• Irritability
• Frequent urination or inability to control urination
• Fast heartbeat
• Muscle tremors

 

[kyphysics]

Let me add that I think Americans are just not sensitive enough about COVID19. Hong Kong was super sensitive and reacted quickly to try to contain it.

They lived through the nightmare of SARS in 2003, which had a much higher death rate. COVID19 kills less, but seems to spread much faster. Thus, more people get it and it's more about hospitalizations at that point. If it spreads in a densely populated area, there could be more need for beds than available. Without assisted breathing, many could die.

COVID19's death rate is less than SARS, but the numbers contracting it are greater.

Asians seemed rightfully and properly concerned. Here, in the U.S., I sense lots of people kind of think it's a whimpy flu only and don't care and seem to have been (at least, until very recently) carrying about publicly as if it weren't an issue at all.

Americans just have never had such an epidemic hit them in recent memory. And, on top of that, we may not have the right numbers by a long shot, given the lack of testing in the U.S.
Mod note: some text with a political slant now removed.

 

[DennisN]

Tea and soda mostly. Not much of a coffee drinker.

Ok. Then you can read my posts as "caffeine" instead of "coffee".

 

[DennisN]

Americans just have never had such an epidemic hit them in recent memory.

We have the same situation here in Sweden. Also, we haven't been in a war since 1814 (!).

 

[jbriggs444]

I had had: a.) diarrhea the past few days + b.) lots of soda (caffeine - which is a diuretic that makes you urinate) + c.) in 95 degree hot summer weather. That combo made me so weak and dehydrated that I collapsed.

Hyponatremia is no joke. One hopes that they checked your electrolytes before replenishing. Central pontine myelinolysis is even less of a joke. [My wife was just discharged this morning after 4 weeks in ICU/hospital/inpatient rehab with that diagnosis. 50% survival rate, supposedly].

 

[Vanadium 50]

I read somewhere

Planning on telling us where?

I'd be very interested in reading how a disease with about a 2% (3% tops) mortality rate can manage to kill 5% of the population.

 

[DennisN]

Hyponatremia is no joke.

No, it definitely isn't.
A couple of years ago I went to the emergency department due to feeling dizzy and confused and having some tremor. I was diagnosed as having hyponatremia and was hospitalized a couple of days.

It was during a heat wave when I had been drinking way too much water, which messed up the electrolyte balance in my body.

 

[kyphysics]

Hyponatremia is no joke. One hopes that they checked your electrolytes before replenishing. Central pontine myelinolysis is even less of a joke. [My wife was just discharged this morning after 4 weeks in ICU/hospital/inpatient rehab with that diagnosis. 50% survival rate, supposedly].

Good to hear your wife on teh good side of recovery, jb!

I actually didn't know the name of those conditions, but am glad you pointed them out.

Also, to be clear, my condition above from was from several years ago. I was trying to compare/contrast that incident with what I've felt recently. ...Just in case that wasn't clear.

But, your bigger point is well taken. Those conditions are just as serious!

The docs gave me several IVs with saline and other "stuff" in them from waht I call. I don't remember everything they gave me - I was half conscious. But, it took several hours and I left later that afternoon/night. It was definitely scary, because I didn't know why I felt so weak that I could barely keep my hands on the steering wheel. It happened rather suddenly.

Maybe to segue back to COVID19 - Does anyone know if the symptoms pop up very suddenly? Do you get like a minor version or one or them first? And, then, gradually get more symptoms and/or stronger versions of the existing one(s)? Or, do you just suddenly feel really bad out of nowhere?

 

[Keith_McClary]

Testing Shortages Force Extreme Shift In Strategy By Local Health Officials
By Jenny Gold and Anna Maria Barry-Jester
March 13, 2020

Public health officials in California’s state capital region announced this week they have stopped tracing the contacts of patients diagnosed with the novel coronavirus. They’ve also ceased recommending quarantines for residents exposed to people confirmed to have the virus.

It was a grim recognition of the virus’ infiltration — and is yet another sign of the detrimental effects of a lack of capability in the U.S. to test people for the deadly Coronavirus as it continues to spread.

“The reason we have to move on is because testing did not occur. We’re still able to do about 20 tests a day,” said Dr. Peter Beilenson, director of Sacramento County’s Department of Health Services. “If you really wanted to quarantine and contain the situation, you would have wanted to know who was positive and quarantine them. Because we never had the tests, it’s kind of a moot point, and the horse is out of the barn.”

 

[phinds]

Yes, I don't know why it was not clickable.

Because you didn't MAKE it clickable. This forum has the obnoxious characteristic of requiring you to insert the actual URL on top of the text after you post the text. Highlight the text then use the link button (approximately a slanted infinity sign, intended to represent two chain links). Also, you had the wrong URL anyway.

 

[WWGD]

Because you didn't MAKE it clickable. This forum has the obnoxious characteristic of requiring you to insert the actual URL on top of the text after you post the text. Highlight the text then use the link button (approximately a slanted infinity sign, intended to represent two chain links). Also, you had the wrong URL anyway.

I am posting from my phone and I don't know how to copy and paste from it.

 

[chirhone]

In our hundreds of positive. We don't have any below 20 years old.

Are teenagers immune system stronger than those in the 30s? How much stronger and how come?

Also what chemicals in the body teenagers have that adults don't have enough? If not immune cell, maybe something else related perhaps to libido?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/14/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread/index.html

"She said they're trying to understand people under the age of 20 who don't have "significant symptoms" -- "Are they a group that are potentially asymptomatic and spreading the virus?" she asked."

 

[Janus]

Did most of my main shopping yesterday. Saw a fair amount of items out of stock, and lower than normal stocks of others. toilet paper completely gone, and just a few paper towels(what I was looking for) left. Went this AM to another store with the wife to pick up some things she wanted. Walked into see the produce dept basically stripped of everything. I might see someone building a food stash stocking up on canned/dried goods, but bananas? I mean, after just a week, they are almost to the point where they are only good for making banana bread. There are going to be a lot of people ending up throwing out a lot of food when it goes bad before they can eat it.

 

[WWGD]

Did most of my main shopping yesterday. Saw a fair amount of items out of stock, and lower than normal stocks of others. toilet paper completely gone, and just a few paper towels(what I was looking for) left. Went this AM to another store with the wife to pick up some things she wanted. Walked into see the produce dept basically stripped of everything. I might see someone building a food stash stocking up on canned/dried goods, but bananas? I mean, after just a week, they are almost to the point where they are only good for making banana bread. There are going to be a lot of people ending up throwing out a lot of food when it goes bad before they can eat it.

Plus a lot of optimists buying frozen food and perishables. Hope for the best but prepare for the worse, or at least the bad.

 

[kyphysics]

Did most of my main shopping yesterday. Saw a fair amount of items out of stock, and lower than normal stocks of others. toilet paper completely gone, and just a few paper towels(what I was looking for) left. Went this AM to another store with the wife to pick up some things she wanted. Walked into see the produce dept basically stripped of everything. I might see someone building a food stash stocking up on canned/dried goods, but bananas? I mean, after just a week, they are almost to the point where they are only good for making banana bread. There are going to be a lot of people ending up throwing out a lot of food when it goes bad before they can eat it.

Target still had a lot of food where I'm at. But, then again, they are not known for their food.

You can freeze fruits, btw. Veggies and fruits do spoil quickly. Hard to stock up without freezing.

 

[phinds]

You can freeze fruits, btw.

Yes, but unless you have a full scale flash-freezing facility, they'll be mostly mush when thawed.

 

[kyphysics]

Yes, but unless you have a full scale flash-freezing facility, they'll be mostly mush when thawed.

You sure about that?

Also, I think I read you can eat them pre-thawed. Or, you can use them in like a "shake" or cake, etc., where texture won't matter.

Apple pie anyone?

 

[anorlunda]

Since there is no specific treatment for coronavirus, there is no benefit to individuals to get tested

The tests are designed to protect the public, not you.

 

[kyphysics]

Plus a lot of optimists buying frozen food and perishables. Hope for the best but prepare for the worse, or at least the bad.

What's wrong with frozen foods?

eta: YOu saying this lasts a year?

 

[Vanadium 50]

The tests are designed to protect the public, not you.

Hence "no benefits to individuals".

However, even then it's marginal. Testing sick people doesn't help them, since the action is the same. It does help monitor the spread of the disease, so it's not crazy to test sick people, which is what is happening. As I pointed out in my message above, testing healthy people is pointless at the moment - any reasonable test error rate is much higher than the disease prevalence, so you're measuring noise. The only people whom it makes sense to test are people in high-risk groups who are not presenting, and I understand that's starting. An example would be people leaving cruise ships with infected passengers. Those people are being quarantined anyway.

 

[WWGD]

What's wrong with frozen foods?

eta: YOu saying this lasts a year?

The grid may fail or not work fully with failing power. Perishables may be good to eat right away while everything works and save non-perishables for later in case the grid fails or works only partially. Edit: There may end up being a shortage of support workers due to being sick or general quarantine.

 

[Janus]

Target still had a lot of food where I'm at. But, then again, they are not known for their food.

You can freeze fruits, btw. Veggies and fruits do spoil quickly. Hard to stock up without freezing.

There are a number of things that do freeze well, and those that do not. (We had a large freezer while I was growing up, and froze some things that we grew in our own garden) . Of course, you need a freezer large enough to hold it all, and if already had the freezer, why didn't they already have food stored in it?
I live in an area where they've been telling us for quite a while that a major earthquake could happen at almost any time. They have advised people to keep emergency supplies, just in case. Obviously not too many people paid any attention. (If they had, they wouldn't be panic buying now. )
And even if we accept the need to build a food stockpile, I'm still questioning some people's buying choices.

 

[Vanadium 50]

And even if we accept the need to build a food stockpile, I'm still questioning some people's buying choices.

The local grocery store had its shelves denuded of diet soda, chips, pretzels and cookies. As well as toilet paper, light bulbs, and electrical extension cords.

 

[kyphysics]

The grid may fail or not work fully with failing power. Perishables may be good to eat right away while everything works and save non-perishables for later in case the grid fails or works only partially. Edit: There may end up being a shortage of support workers due to being sick or general quarantine.

good advice on eating hierarchy

Yeah, I have heard about scenarios where supply trucks arent' driven too for new supplies.

I have a lot. If this lasts more than 2 months, then I'd neat to restock.

I hope violence doesn't take place with poor people unable to stock up going out to find limited supplies and desperately needing food!

 

[WWGD]

The local grocery store had its shelves denuded of diet soda, chips, pretzels and cookies. As well as toilet paper, light bulbs, and electrical extension cords.

Reminds me of those modern mega stores where I bough a bowling ball, rat poison, scented candles and a 3-layer cake.

 

[WWGD]

good advice on eating hierarchy

Yeah, I have heard about scenarios where supply trucks arent' driven too for new supplies.

I have a lot. If this lasts more than 2 months, then I'd neat to restock.

I hope violence doesn't take place with poor people unable to stock up going out to find limited supplies and desperately needing food!

Im remembering pictures of people in India showering with a small bottle of water. Standard showering is grossly inefficient in terms of water use.

 

[Bystander]

throwing out a lot of food when it goes bad before they can eat it.

+10

 

[phinds]

The local grocery store had its shelves denuded of diet soda, chips, pretzels and cookies.

Hey, are you making fun of America's health food diet ?

 

[Janus]

Target still had a lot of food where I'm at. But, then again, they are not known for their food.

You can freeze fruits, btw. Veggies and fruits do spoil quickly. Hard to stock up without freezing.

There are a number of things that do freeze well, and those that do not. (We had a large freezer while I was growing up, and froze some things that we grew in our own garden) . Of course, you need a freezer large enough to hold it all, and if already had the freezer, why didn't they already have food stored in it?
I live in an area where they've been telling us for quite a while that a major earthquake could happen at almost any time. They have advised people to keep emergency supplies, just in case. Obviously not too many people paid any attention. (If they had, they wouldn't be panic buying now. )
And even if we accept the need to build a food stockpile, I'm still questioning some people's buying choices.

 

[kyphysics]

Hey, are you making fun of America's health food diet ?

One lady stocked a TON of junk food. Said it was for her kids.

I get kids love that stuff, but like...you need to be healthy to have a good immune system!

 

[chirhone]

In our place. People are hoarding alcohol and there are no stocks anywhere anymore. How about in other places? The superstition here is that the more alcohol your home is, the more afraid the virus is and won't fly into your house.

 

[kyphysics]

Creating a DVD/movie (I buy/rent them on YouTube) binge watching list - so far I've got:

1.) Contagion (virus movie)
2.) The Martian (isolation/survival film)
3.) Castaway (isolation/survival film)

who wants to make some recommendations?

 

[WWGD]

In our place. People are hoarding alcohol and there are no stocks anywhere anymore. How about in other places? The superstition here is that the more alcohol your home is, the more afraid the virus is and won't fly into your house.

View attachment 258708

Hey, you're dealing with a bunch of people who conclude no college degree is needed for success on the unique basis that Bill Gates ( millionaire dad/money to fall back on) and Jack Ma ( legit case) made it big, so maybe not too much of a leap.

 

[Janus]

In our place. People are hoarding alcohol and there are no stocks anywhere anymore. How about in other places? The superstition here is that the more alcohol your home is, the more afraid the virus is and won't fly into your house.

View attachment 258708

I actually lucked out yesterday. I actually scored some alcohol prep pads! My wife wanted some to carry with her so she could wipe the surface of her phone. At first, it looked like they were all out of stock, but then I noticed a couple of small boxes way in the back behind the spring loaded device meant to bring stock to the front. I reached in and fished them out. They were the prep pads. Good thing I'm tall(they were on top shelf), and have long arms.

 

[kyphysics]

I actually lucked out yesterday. I actually scored some alcohol prep pads! My wife wanted some to carry with her so she could wipe the surface of her phone. At first, it looked like they were all out of stock, but then I noticed a couple of small boxes way in the back behind the spring loaded device meant to bring stock to the front. I reached in and fished them out. They were the prep pads. Good thing I'm tall(they were on top shelf), and have long arms.

I resorted to calling around before going out the last few days. Saves me time/energy of doing a drop-in, luck of the draw visit.

I've said it before, but Dollar Tree has been gold on hand sanitizer, alcohol wipes (LOTS when I left the store), and bleach (granted, it was the weirdest brands I'd ever heard of...not Chlorox, but very weird names).

You can ask your local stores when their "trucks come in."

Costco's new shipment days can be gold too. They had lots of alcohols on shipment day. Perhaps the membership paywall blocks out your everyday shopper just enough to create some "extras" on the shelves.

So, yeah, for me it's Costco + Dollar Tree (perhaps they have the opposite effect as Costco - their no name brands maybe lead people to go get the brand named stuff (Purell and Germ X) at Target, etc.).

 

[anorlunda]

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615353/singapore-is-the-model-for-how-to-handle-the-coronavirus/

The emphasis are mine.

The key features: quick action, extensive testing, and relentless tracking.Singapore was hit early, as one of China’s key trading partners. Within a few weeks of the first official notice of “Wuhan flu,” it had a dozen cases. But it very quickly realized that this was more than the seasonal flu, and took rapid action. Primed by experience with the SARS virus of 2002-3, Singapore began carefully tracking cases to find the commonalities that linked them. Within a day, sometimes two, of a new case being detected, the authorities were able to piece together the complex chain of transmission from one person to another, like Sherlock Holmes with a database. As of February, everyone entering a government or corporate building in Singapore had to provide contact details to expedite the process.

It’s not simply the ability to detect the cases and explain why they happened that makes Singapore such a role model in this epidemic; nucleic acid testing kits were rapidly developed and deployed to ports of entry. Within three hours, while individuals are quarantined on-site, officials can confirm whether or not they are infected with the virus before allowing them to enter.

 

[kyphysics]

Also, hoarders are stupid. Do they not realize that by hoarding and leaving others without sanitation products that those people might get infected more easily and spread it...and so on and so forth. And that having LOTS of infected people around hoarders, in turn, would get hoarders infected more easily.

 

[anorlunda]

I don't want to defend hoarding. But poor information from authorities exacerbates the situation.

Today, a page from Center for Disease Control appeared on my screen. I didn't click anything to make it appear so I don't know how they did that push. Anyhow, reading the info they said that seniors should prepare with medicine and necessary supplies for "a period of time."

What the hell does "a period of time" mean? Some people may think 1-2 weeks, but if other people think 1-2 years, I can't accuse them of being wrong or unreasonable. It is the fault of authorities.