COVID COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[bhobba]

Doesn't one just self-isolate until one is no longer symptomatic, maybe a day extra if one wants to be cautious?

Yes - but watch it - it can develop into Pneumonia. At the slightest hint of respiratory distress see a doctor. If I remember correctly that's what they are saying likely will happen here in Aus. You ring or skype your doctor who assesses if you need to come in. Most will not and do just what you say. But personally I have so many risk factors I would much prefer to be in hospital - I will list them - 65 this year, insulin dependent diabetes, an autoimmune disease Psoriatic Arthritis, and immune system heavily suppressed due to taking a Biologic. We must preserve some hospital beds for cases like mine. But I do have private health insurance which I would use even though I will likely be out of pocket a few thousand dollars.

The transmission of COVID-19 from asymptomatic individuals is generally thought to be negligible.

Likely true but we are not 100% sure:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/14/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread/index.html

For what its worth I think they are symptomatic, but just so mild they do not notice it. Just a hypothesis.

Thanks
Bill

 

[DennisN]

Currently I am in self isolation due to Coronavirus symptoms.

I didn't meet the criteria for testing because I didn't have trouble breathing and I had no contact with anyone known to be infected. My symptoms were mild diarrhea at first, a slowly building fever (over a few days), then a mild sore throat, high fever (for 2 days), body aches, and headache. After that, just a lingering off and on mild throat and lung feeling (as if I had breathed in dust, and on the verge of getting a sore throat). I didn't have a cough the whole time though.

I, like you, have had some of the symptoms, but not all.

As I've said before, we are in this together.

@Jarvis323: I had a similar condition except diarrhea, high fever and body aches. In addition, I had almost no cough, during this time I had coughed maybe 3 or 4 times only.

Currently I'm feeling quite fine. I have no other symptoms than a stuffed nose, so I have to blow the nose quite often. But I'm still staying at home, of course. My worry and anxiety in general has also dramatically reduced. Now I feel like Rambo staying at home.

 

[DennisN]

Yes - but watch it - it can develop into Pneumonia.

Yes. My mother got pneumonia a couple of years ago, and I helped her out. She said to me afterwards she had never felt so sick. And anyone reading this, pneumonia can be lethal too!

So:

At the slightest hint of respiratory distress see a doctor.

I definitely agree.

and immune system heavily suppressed due to taking a Biologic.

@bhobba , what do you mean by "taking a Biologic", I wonder?

 

[bhobba]

Imagine if there was a vaccine against the virus available, and those two hoarders went around buying up vaccine shots to be sold for a big profit

I am not sure how that would happen. Do you give yourself vaccine shots? Normally you visit the doctor and get the shot or you go to the Chemist where you buy the vaccine and they give you the shot. I suppose you could buy the vaccine and say I am going to the doctor to get it injected, but a government could easily legislate against that requiring you to get the pharmacist to inject it.

Thanks
Bill

 

[DennisN]

I am not sure how that would happen. Do you give yourself vaccine shots? Normally you visit the doctor and get the shot or you go to the Chemist where you buy the vaccine and they give you the shot. I suppose you could buy the vaccine and say I am going to the doctor to get it injected, but a government could easily legislate against that requiring you to get the pharmacist to inject it.

You are quite correct, of course.

I just did an analogy to demonstrate the questionable moral of hoarding in times like these.

 

[chirhone]

When you sneeze or cough. How long is the distance it can travel? We are trying to maintain one meter "social distancing" Is it enough?

Here some churches can't be closed during lockdown because of some members fears that they can be hit by lightning from above if they will not attend one.

 

[DennisN]

Here some churches can't be closed during lockdown because of some members fears that they can be hit by lightning from above if they will not attend one.

Science to the rescue: A Faraday cage for those members would prevent them from being hit by lighning.

 

[wukunlin]

When you sneeze or cough. How long is the distance it can travel? We are trying to maintain one meter "social distancing" Is it enough?

Here some churches can't be closed during lockdown because of some members fears that they can be hit by lightning from above if they will not attend one.

View attachment 258713

If you are going to a Church, wear a face mask.

 

[DennisN]

Here's another great video on how to manage your mental health during these times.
And in my opinion, it can be useful for anyone regardless of age or health to see this video:

Depression, Anxiety, and the Coronavirus (Douglas Bloch)
And he makes a very funny joke after 8 m 45 s.

 

[chirhone]

Why don't they call it COVID-20 instead? I saw in TV some are questioning the Lockdown arguing COVID-19 already expired because it's year 2020 already.

 

[chirhone]

Science to the rescue: A Faraday cage for those members would prevent them from being hit by lighning.

I told one of them. He answered that earthly things won't protect them because it's not a normal lightning but one that comes from someplace similar to Asgard.

Speaking of lightning. Can even a small Faraday cage protects one from very powerful lightning? Is there a camping tent made of Faraday cage fabric?

In the lockdown. Some would be so bored at home, they may put tent in the rooftop and enjoy the sky.

 

[DennisN]

I told one of them. He answered that earthly things won't protect them because it's not a normal lightning but one that comes from someplace similar to Asgard.

Ah, I see. Well those are more difficult to convince. Maybe you could show him this music video instead, which demonstrates exactly that kind of lightning:

WKUK God Wants You To Wear A Hat

 

[chirhone]

We have 11 deaths now. Many have cardiovascular diseases. But one is 40 yrs old and no signs of it.

Is there a list of summary of all deceased worldwide? I'd like to know if most of them are weak or immunocomprised. How many of them are so strong and optimal health?

I wonder if the virus is seeking some factors in the body that can kill them faster.

 

[wukunlin]

We have 11 deaths now. Many have cardiovascular diseases. But one is 40 yrs old and no signs of it.

Is there a list of summary of all deceased worldwide? I'd like to know if most of them are weak or immunocomprised. How many of them are so strong and optimal health?

I wonder if the virus is seeking some factors in the body that can kill them faster.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

 

[atyy]

When you sneeze or cough. How long is the distance it can travel? We are trying to maintain one meter "social distancing" Is it enough?

Here some churches can't be closed during lockdown because of some members fears that they can be hit by lightning from above if they will not attend one.

View attachment 258713

Hmmm, in many places the suggested distance is greater than 1m, it should be around 2m or 6ft.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html

But even with that, it is more important than that is that those with symptoms (even very mild ones) should self-isolate and not attend church.

In Singapore, the Archbishop of the Catholic Church has canceled all masses. He momentarily lifted the suspension, but reinstated it (because of the pandemic declaration) before any masses had taken place. I think @kadiot praised this decision earlier in the thread, and I too think it is a good and exemplary one.

 

[atyy]

We have 11 deaths now. Many have cardiovascular diseases. But one is 40 yrs old and no signs of it.

Is there a list of summary of all deceased worldwide? I'd like to know if most of them are weak or immunocomprised. How many of them are so strong and optimal health?

I wonder if the virus is seeking some factors in the body that can kill them faster.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/world/asia/coronavirus-death-life.html

 

[DennisN]

@bhobba , @Evo , @phinds , @russ_watters :

I recently took an inventory of my number of toilet paper rolls in my home.
It is getting critically low.
I've only got 500 rolls left.
Could you please perhaps sell me some?
I need about 500 more.
I can pay you via paypal.

 

[Vanadium 50]

There is a reason the tests are routinely done twice.

My understanding is that a test gets an incorrect result because of the patient, not because of the test. A false negative (more common) because the body just doesn't have enough right-sized virus fragments.

 

[WWGD]

Science to the rescue: A Faraday cage for those members would prevent them from being hit by lighning.

A Far a day keeps the mortuary away* . Or something like that.

*As in 'An apple a day...'.

 

[kyphysics]

Georgia Democratic primary cancelled.

Big question is how the general election will play out if COVID19 still lingers in November. That could be a super spreader event nationwide.

Have heard warm weather and higher humidity MIGHT be something that wipes out the virus, as it cannot survive as well. Maybe growth and carrier rates decline in the summer. But, what about November?

Can elections even take place? They are massively cramped events, so social spacing/distancing is very hard.

 

[wukunlin]

Georgia Democratic primary cancelled.

Big question is how the general election will play out if COVID19 still lingers in November. That could be a super spreader event nationwide.

Have heard warm weather and higher humidity MIGHT be something that wipes out the virus, as it cannot survive as well. Maybe growth and carrier rates decline in the summer. But, what about November?

Can elections even take place? They are massively cramped events, so social spacing/distancing is very hard.

Is it at all possible for the election to take place electronically? I suppose it needs a nation wide identification system, not sure how that can work in the US though?

 

[Astronuc]

If you are going to a Church, wear a face mask.

If one goes out in public, one may wish to wear a mask, because one does not know who one may encounter. Also, carry some disposable wipes with which to wipe hands that have touched high-touch surfaces. At my place of employment, sanitary practices were ramped up (increased cleaning of door handles and door knobs, and high-touch surfaces) four weeks ago in anticipation of the spread of 2019-nCoV. Hand sanitizer dispensers were placed near all building entrances.

Three weeks ago, we began doing meetings by video-conference, which has been an option for a number of years.

 

[kyphysics]

Everyone should have some hand sanitizer, but hoarders who deprive others should read this:

The week that changed lives: For one Garner family, sanitizer shortage puts a life at risk
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article241193256.html

“Ma’am we don’t have any,” the pharmacist on the other end of the line replied, “and I don’t think we’ll have any for a month.”

Bethany and Jared Reeves’ 3-year-old daughter, Naomi, received a heart transplant when she was four months old. Naomi’s immune system is suppressed to keep her body from rejecting the heart, leaving her highly susceptible to colds, the flu and COVID-19, the illness caused by the new coronavirus. They need the hand sanitizer so they and their older daughter, Kathryn, can protect Naomi.

The product is important enough to Naomi’s heath that the Reeveses installed a dispenser just inside the family’s front door; visitors must use it before entering the two-story home. So when Bethany learned the sanitizer would be missing from their local pharmacy for at least a month, the hunt was on.

If you have a few months' supply - great. If you have 10 years worth and people like this cannot access any, then in emergencies like COVID19, that is practically criminal.

 

[kadiot]

EU decision (approved by Council because Commission cannot do anything without the approval of the Council members in concensus, Italy naturally included) through EU Commission which is the executive arm of the Council (issued two days ago):

COVID-19: Commission sets out European coordinated response to counter the economic impact of the Coronavirus*

.../...The Commission will use all the instruments at its disposal to mitigate the consequences of the pandemic, in particular:

- To ensure the necessary supplies to our health systems by preserving the integrity of the Single Market and of production and distribution of value chains;

- To support people so that income and jobs are not affected disproportionally and to avoid permanent effect of this crisis;

- To support firms and ensure that the liquidity of our financial sector can continue to support the economy

- And to allow Member States to act decisively in a coordinated way, through using the full flexibility of our State Aid and Stability and Growth Pact Frameworks.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_459

 

[DennisN]

Everyone should have some hand sanitizer, but hoarders who deprive others should read this:

The week that changed lives: For one Garner family, sanitizer shortage puts a life at risk
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article241193256.html
If you have a few months' supply - great. If you have 10 years worth and people like this cannot access any, then in emergencies like COVID19, that is practically criminal.

That is absolutely heartbreaking.

I will try to find the email to the journalist who wrote the article to get the contact info to the family.
If I succeed I will try to locate hand sanitization and send it to them. But it would take some time for a delivery from Sweden to the US, so if anyone here reading this is in the US and have access to available hand sanitization it would go much faster.

Anyone, anyone, Bueller?

Maybe we could ask @Greg Bernhardt for advice regarding this too, that is, maybe ask members how to locate available hand sanitization, perhaps?

EDIT:

I have found the email to the reporter and I have just sent an email to him.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Georgia Democratic primary cancelled.

Big question is how the general election will play out if COVID19 still lingers in November. That could be a super spreader event nationwide.

Have heard warm weather and higher humidity MIGHT be something that wipes out the virus, as it cannot survive as well. Maybe growth and carrier rates decline in the summer. But, what about November?

Can elections even take place? They are massively cramped events, so social spacing/distancing is very hard.

The Georgia primary was not cancelled, it was postponed to May 19: https://apnews.com/2ec895cc5ec27745f9a1b33c091be7ca

Georgia is the second state to postpone primary elections due to concerns over the virus, joining Louisiana.

Please be more careful about the facts that you report. A claim like this should include a link to a reputable news site.

Meanwhile, my home state, Illinois, is proceeding with our March 17 primary despite volunteer poll workers canceling and polling locations backing out: https://chicago.suntimes.com/politi...-county-polling-places-unprecedented-election

Luckily, suspecting things could get bad by March 17, I requested a mail in ballot a week ago, so that I can avoid having to go to a polling place.

Various states have expanded vote by mail efforts, and some states conduct their elections entirely by mail (IIRC, Oregon does this). Some states are considering conducting their primaries by mail (https://www.baltimoresun.com/corona...0200313-asebi2ahqfab7a7yxhnoayy22a-story.html), and mail in ballots could presumably be a good option in November if necessary (though if Coronavirus is still a big issue by then, perhaps we have bigger worries).

 

[kadiot]

The tests are designed to protect the public, not you.

I agree. We have been abiding by the World Health Organization's(WHO) directives regarding the management of the Covid 19 breakout. Screening, reporting, contact tracing are some of the recommendations. Testing was (and still is) a problem because of limited resources. This is a new disease that requires special testing. This caught the entire world flat footed. No one was prepared for this need. WHO did not advise outright travel bans. We did anyway, as some other countries where the number of morbidity and mortality is nevertheless staggering.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Please be more careful about the facts that you report. A claim like this should include a link to a reputable news site.

I agree.

And @kyphysics , you might want to take it down a notch about telling others what to do, given that you've told us you think you have it, and then zipped out to shop and refuse to see a doctor. Glass houses, stones, you know the drill.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

My understanding is that a test gets an incorrect result because of the patient, not because of the test. A false negative (more common) because the body just doesn't have enough right-sized virus fragments.

Do you have a source for this? I've done RT-qPCR tests in a research setting (though not in any diagnostic capacity), and false positives/negatives due to issues with the sample (not the patient) seem more common (e.g. taking more sample from the patient can resolve issues with inconsistent tests).

It's certainly possible that patient-specific false negatives could arise due to mutations in the virus that render it undetectable by current tests (which probe for specific RNA sequences within the viral genome), but it seems like these are likely rare events (the mutation rate of coronaviruses seems fairly low and the sequences chosen as targets for the tests are in highly evolutionarily conserved regions of the virus that should not mutate frequently).

 

[WWGD]

That is absolutely heartbreaking.

I will try to find the email to the journalist who wrote the article to get the contact info to the family.
If I succeed I will try to locate hand sanitization and send it to them. But it would take some time for a delivery from Sweden to the US, so if anyone here reading this is in the US and have access to available hand sanitization it would go much faster.

Anyone, anyone, Bueller?

Maybe we could ask @Greg Bernhardt for advice regarding this too, that is, maybe ask members how to locate available hand sanitization, perhaps?

They don't seem to have left a contact.

 

[DennisN]

They don't seem to have left a contact.

I have found the email address to the reporter via my google-fu, and I sent an email to him about a minute ago.

 

[WWGD]

I have found the email address to the reporter via my google-fu, and I sent an email to him about a minute ago.

Ok, please post if you get it. Good job.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Do you have a source for this?

My doc. He also said, and this seems sensible to me, that the higher the accuracy level, the more that false positives/negatives depend on the patient over the sample.

 

[DennisN]

Ok, please post if you get it. Good job.

Thanks! Will do.

 

[atyy]

Do you have a source for this? I've done RT-qPCR tests in a research setting (though not in any diagnostic capacity), and false positives/negatives due to issues with the sample (not the patient) seem more common (e.g. taking more sample from the patient can resolve issues with inconsistent tests).

It's certainly possible that patient-specific false negatives could arise due to mutations in the virus that render it undetectable by current tests (which probe for specific RNA sequences within the viral genome), but it seems like these are likely rare events (the mutation rate of coronaviruses seems fairly low and the sequences chosen as targets for the tests are in highly evolutionarily conserved regions of the virus that should not mutate frequently).

My doc. He also said, and this seems sensible to me, that the higher the accuracy level, the more that false positives/negatives depend on the patient over the sample.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762688

Take a look at Figure 2 in the above article, a quick glance at the PCR Ct values seems to support @Ygggdrasil's guess - in a given patient one can have ND (non-detectable) values even with previous and subsequent days above detectability.

BTW, I don't think the statement from @Vanadium 50's doc can be generally right, because if a full sequence is done, I would expect essentially 100% accuracy with no false negatives for any patient (but with false negative for particular samples from a patient). The only thing is of course that a full sequence is not a sort of test you run on massive numbers of people (@Ygggdrasil please correct if wrong)

 

[Vanadium 50]

because if a full sequence is done

I've never sequenced DNA myself, but I believer you are correct that a full sequence is not a sort of test you run on massive numbers of people. While the JAMA article was interesting, I'm not sure how it connects to false negatives or positives.

 

[Janus]

Is it at all possible for the election to take place electronically? I suppose it needs a nation wide identification system, not sure how that can work in the US though?

In my state (Oregon), we vote entirely by mail.

 

[atyy]

I've never sequenced DNA myself, but I believer you are correct that a full sequence is not a sort of test you run on massive numbers of people. While the JAMA article was interesting, I'm not sure how it connects to false negatives or positives.

My guess is that an ND on one day where the previous and subsequent days are positive would be a false negative sample in a positive patient.

 

[homeylova223]

A John Hopkins doctor say there might be up to 500,000 infected in the USA.No this can't be true.
This is the news article https://news.yahoo.com/marty-makary-on-coronavirus-in-the-us-183558545.html. The doctor name is Makaray here is website https://www.jhsph.edu/faculty/directory/profile/1565/martin-a-makary

According to Makary this is going to the worst public health crisis since polio. People need to take this virus seriously.

 

[homeylova223]

No no no we are running out of toilet paper where I live this virus is terrible.

 

[homeylova223]

According to

 

[atyy]

A John Hopkins doctor say there might be up to 500,000 infected in the USA.No this can't be true.
This is the news article https://news.yahoo.com/marty-makary-on-coronavirus-in-the-us-183558545.html. The doctor name is Makaray here is website https://www.jhsph.edu/faculty/directory/profile/1565/martin-a-makary

A quick estimate by Trevor Bedford is between 10,000 to 40,000.

 

[DennisN]

Ok, please post if you get it. Good job.

Since I am wannabe internet spy*, I have managed to find the home address of the family anyway.
(I haven't yet got an email from the journalist).

* Which anyone could have done, but it takes some time, luck and a bit of brains.

EDIT: And I have now also located the mother of the family on facebook, so I will send her a message now.

 

[bhobba]

If one goes out in public, one may wish to wear a mask, because one does not know who one may encounter.

It only protects others if the wearer has it. Its value depends entirely on how many people are not symptomatic or have symptoms so mild you do not even notice it. So far the consensus has been that its not worth it - but our knowledge is changing fast.

Thanks
Bill

 

[phinds]

If you have a few months' supply - great. If you have 10 years worth and people like this cannot access any, then in emergencies like COVID19, that is practically criminal.

Why is the word "practically" in that sentence?

 

[bhobba]

Maybe we could ask @Greg Bernhardt for advice regarding this too, that is, maybe ask members how to locate available hand sanitization, perhaps?

Just use soap. I don't get this hand sanitizer thing. Yes you can have it on your desk and its convenient from that point of view - but its just convenience - not a necessity.

It's becoming likely the real issue here is decision makers do not understand exponential growth and do not take decisions early enough, not the lack of non-essential items like hand sanitizes. Today I decided to stock up a bit more on meat and veg. Not much veg - but I did find some. Meat was funny. Hardly any - except for expensive cuts of which there was tons. I bought a few thick cut on the rib steaks. This is an emergency - penny pinching on meat cuts - beats me.

Thank
Bill

 

[chemisttree]

In memoriam for the lost and seriously afflicted everywhere.

 

[bhobba]

Georgia is the second state to postpone primary elections due to concerns over the virus, joining Louisiana.

We have local elections soon. The council announced Coronavirus will not be an excuse for not voting (here in Aus we have compulsory voting). Normally you have long lines at the polling booths. You think people will listen when the government has announced social distancing of at least three feet is now required. Talk about mixed messages. I will drive to the polling booth and see the line. If it is as I think it will be I will drive home and see what silliness they try on those who did not vote - if they dare.

Thanks
Bill

 

[DennisN]

Just use soap. I don't get this hand sanitizer thing. Yes you can have it on your desk and its convenient from that point of view - but its just convenience - not a necessity.

I can assure you I will give the mother advice regarding safety learned from WHO and this thread when I get in contact with her.

 

[morrobay]

Have there been any documented cases of infection from surfaces like rails at malls and public transportation? There can be exposures but not in high enough numbers to be infectious.