COVID COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[Jarvis323]

I hope you get better...have you talked to a doctor/hospital about getting tested? What did they say?

I didn't meet the criteria for testing because I didn't have trouble breathing and I had no contact with anyone known to be infected. My symptoms were mild diarrhea at first, a slowly building fever (over a few days), then a mild sore throat, high fever (for 2 days), body aches, and headache. After that, just a lingering off and on mild throat and lung feeling (as if I had breathed in dust, and on the verge of getting a sore throat). I didn't have a cough the whole time though.

I had gone out to stock up on food only a few days before this started, so I've been able to stay home the entire time. I am hoping to get a test when the new web based+drive through system is operational.

 

[Jarvis323]

Are you sure it's too late?

I have read that just as case growth spreads exponentially, prevention also impacts the curve exponentially.

Do we really have so many people infected already (3-15-2020) that it's hopeless?

I shouldn't have said that I guess. I don't think we should give up with testing+quarantine. But the effectiveness of testing+quarantine is diminished by now due to community spread.

 

[kyphysics]

I didn't meet the criteria for testing because I didn't have trouble breathing and I had no contact with anyone known to be infected. My symptoms were mild diarrhea at first, a slowly building fever (over a few days), then a mild sore throat, high fever (for 2 days), body aches, and headache. After that, just a lingering off and on mild throat and lung feeling (as if I had breathed in dust, and on the verge of getting a sore throat). I didn't have a cough the whole time though.

I had gone out to stock up on food only a few days before this started, so I've been able to stay home the entire time. I am hoping to get a test when the new web based+drive through system is operational.

If it gets any worse, maybe go see a doctor anyways just for whatever condition you DO have.

That's my plan. I, like you, have had some of the symptoms, but not all. Hoping you get better soon and also just take seriously seeing the doctor if things don't feel right. Better to spend $100 vs. $10,000 later.

I have to take heed of that advice myself! I've arguably been too cavalier with things.

 

[bhobba]

They have advised people to keep emergency supplies, just in case. Obviously not too many people paid any attention. (If they had, they wouldn't be panic buying now. )
And even if we accept the need to build a food stockpile, I'm still questioning some people's buying choices.

Yes they advised that quite a while ago now. Personally I just got a few more packets of those individual mixed frozen vegetables and some steak. Human psychology is a strange thing.

Thanks
Bill

 

[kyphysics]

Another problem with panic buying is it is the opposite of social distancing. Massive crowds at grocery stores spreads the virus more easily.

 

[BWV]

This is why most every dangerous new virus has originated in China:

Nearly 20,000 wildlife farms raising species including peacocks, civet cats, porcupines, ostriches, wild geese and boar have been shut down across China in the wake of the coronavirus, in a move that has exposed the hitherto unknown size of the industry.
...
China’s leadership has pushed the idea that “wildlife domestication” should be a key part of rural development, eco-tourism and poverty alleviation. A 2017 report by the Chinese Academy of Engineering on the development of the wildlife farming industry valued the wildlife-farming industry those operations at 520bn yuan, or £57bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...le-of-chinas-secretive-wildlife-farm-industry

 

[Jarvis323]

This is why most every dangerous new virus has originated in China...

This isn't true though.

 

[wukunlin]

This is why most every dangerous new virus has originated in China:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...le-of-chinas-secretive-wildlife-farm-industry

"Most every dangerous new virus has originated in China." Is that actually true? So far I haven't seen any numbers to back up such claims.

Also, if the animals are domesticated, are they still wildlife?

 

[kyphysics]

I didn't meet the criteria for testing because I didn't have trouble breathing and I had no contact with anyone known to be infected. My symptoms were mild diarrhea at first, a slowly building fever (over a few days), then a mild sore throat, high fever (for 2 days), body aches, and headache. After that, just a lingering off and on mild throat and lung feeling (as if I had breathed in dust, and on the verge of getting a sore throat). I didn't have a cough the whole time though.

By the way, I saw these articles from the New York Times & The Guardian just now searching Coronavirus things online:

France Warns Against Use of Anti-Inflammatory Drugs to Tackle Coronavirus
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/03/14/world/europe/14reuters-health-coronavirus-france-drug.html

PARIS — France's health minister on Saturday said people should not use anti-inflammatory drugs if they have coronavirus-like symptoms because it could worsen their condition.

"Taking anti-inflammatory drugs (ibuprofen, cortisone ...) could be an aggravating factor for the infection. If you have a fever, take paracetamol," Oliver Veran said on Twitter.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ory-drugs-may-aggravate-coronavirus-infection

Health officials point out that anti-inflammatory drugs are known to be a risk for those with infectious illnesses because they tend to diminish the response of the body’s immune system.

The health ministry added that patients should choose paracetamol because “it will reduce the fever without counterattacking the inflammation”.

French patients have been forced to consult pharmacies since mid-January if they want to buy popular painkillers, including ibuprofen, paracetamol and aspirin, to be reminded of the risks.

Ibuprofen is a go-to of mine. Be careful out there with using it in COVID19 symptoms cases! ...could worsen your symptoms

 

[mfb]

Focusing on the sick people doesn't tell us anything - we know they're sick.

But we don't know what they have, if it can be treated (if it's not COVID-19), and if they might have infected other people with COVID-19. The only way to determine that is by testing them.

If you want to test high-risk people, having 300 thousand kits (roughly what's available) makes more sense than 300 million.

Additional information isn't going to make the situation worse, as long as that additional information is used properly. The US has completed https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Ftesting-in-us.html so far, and has found 3000 cases with these tests. You can contain the spread if you track infected people and people they had contact with, and test them, and isolate positive cases as quickly as possible. South Korea showed how it's done. But you cannot do that without testing way more than the US does. At the current level it's not even tracking properly how widespread the disease is (which is interesting on its own).

As I understand it, the tests give the same result every time.

There is a reason the tests are routinely done twice.

if you test someone who isn't sick today they may yet get sick a week or a month from now. So mass-testing of people who do not have a known risk doesn't actually change the need to test at-risk people.

Have you seen anyone proposing mass testing without testing at-risk people? I certainly didn't.
People only get sick from infected people they have contact with, so the more infected people you can isolate from others the less likely people get sick. Testing more finds more of these people, slowing or stopping the spread.

but this idea that seems to be out there that "anyone who wants a test should be able to get one" isn't smart either

Why not, if enough tests are available?

 

[BWV]

"Most every dangerous new virus has originated in China." Is that actually true? So far I haven't seen any numbers to back up such claims.

should have clarified this century - most notably SARS in 2003, H1N1 in 2009. Chinese gov encouraged the massive proliferation wildlife farms beginning in the late 1990s. The farms, of course, create grave risks of zoonosis. in many ways we are fortunate that this virus is not more lethal. These farms pose a threat to the whole world.

Also, if the animals are domesticated, are they still wildlife?

breeding wild animals in captivity does not make them domesticated.

 

[bhobba]

As I pointed out in my message above, testing healthy people is pointless at the moment - any reasonable test error rate is much higher than the disease prevalence, so you're measuring noise.

I see your point now, but there is the issue that in a number of people its so mild they do not even know they have it, so continue to infect others. What percentage? I do not know. But if significant, wide testing could be of benefit. If testing shows such people are reasonably rare then reconsidering it is likely wise. BTW the new test that is in use in China I posted about before, and will likely supplant current testing, only takes 8 to 15 minutes which will help things. If memory serves me correctly its 90% accurate.

Thanks
Bill

 

[wukunlin]

should have clarified this century - most notably SARS in 2003, H1N1 in 2009. Chinese gov encouraged the massive proliferation wildlife farms beginning in the late 1990s. The farms, of course, create grave risks of zoonosis. in many ways we are fortunate that this virus is not more lethal. These farms pose a threat to the whole world.

H1N1 is from China? Source please. And how are these farms riskier than others in terms of zoonosis?

breeding wild animals in captivity does not make them domesticated.

Then what does?

 

[bhobba]

Hoarders at their worst:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-purell-wipes-amazon-sellers.html

Why not use soap and water - its supposedly slightly more effective because it also removes natural oils that can protect viruses. I use Dove soap which my dermatologist (I occasionally see one for the Psoriasis part of my Psoriatic Arthritis) says is not that drying to the skin - I do not bother with hand sanitizes - just washing hands a lot.

Thanks
Bill

 

[bhobba]

This isn't true though.

Swine flu I believe originated in Veracruz, Mexico

Thanks
Bill

 

[BWV]

H1N1 is from China? Source please. And how are these farms riskier than others in terms of zoonosis?

OK thought the 2009 H1N1 did come from China, but it did not. Yes, the farms are riskier - more species in more unregulated farms means more potential novel virus mutuation

a precient article from 2017

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/china-ground-zero-future-pandemic-180965213/

Then what does?

breeding over many generations to live alongside humans, like cows or dogs

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/reference/domesticated-animals/

 

[atyy]

I can think of some benefits to individuals though. Currently I am in self isolation due to Coronavirus symptoms. It's quite long that I need to self isolate compared to if I had a cold or the flu. If I were able to be tested, then I could confidently end my self isolation and go to work. I could also go and help my neighbor or grandmother.

Doesn't one just self-isolate until one is no longer symptomatic, maybe a day extra if one wants to be cautious?

The transmission of COVID-19 from asymptomatic individuals is generally thought to be negligible.

 

[wukunlin]

OK thought the 2009 H1N1 did come from China, but it did not. Yes, the farms are riskier - more species in more unregulated farms means more potential novel virus mutuation

a precient article from 2017

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/china-ground-zero-future-pandemic-180965213/
breeding over many generations to live alongside humans, like cows or dogs

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/reference/domesticated-animals/

Okay I see what you mean.

But China is not the only place that does this though. There was a butcher in New Zealand where I visit regularly that has a fridge for wildlife, like kangaroos from Australia and pheasants and wild hares from whereever. In Southeast Asia, you have people eating squirrels and other rodents regularly, and in South America, you got Capybaras. And I'm pretty sure there are other exotic meat in parts of Europe and Africa that we may or may not be willing to try. Especially when we have developing countries where they may not be able to set up the degree of regulations in every single farm like we are used to. China simply has a bigger population, and a bigger population doing the same risky things other people do, so when the dies roll, it is more likely to land on China (or India).

BTW that Guardian article repeatedly mention how the wildlife ban in China is temporary. That's wrong, every billboard I see in China is saying it is permanent.

 

[DennisN]

Hoarders at their worst:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-purell-wipes-amazon-sellers.html

That's pretty repulsive.

I agree!

Think about it:

Imagine if there was a vaccine against the virus available, and those two hoarders went around buying up vaccine shots to be sold for a big profit. This would mean other people may not be able to get the vaccine due to lack of supply. Which then would mean more people could get infected and risk dying because of those two hoarders.

 

[atyy]

I shouldn't have said that I guess. I don't think we should give up with testing+quarantine. But the effectiveness of testing+quarantine is diminished by now due to community spread.

But how about Korea? Aren't they still doing testing+quarantine and the situation seems to be improving despite their huge community spread?

 

[bhobba]

Doesn't one just self-isolate until one is no longer symptomatic, maybe a day extra if one wants to be cautious?

Yes - but watch it - it can develop into Pneumonia. At the slightest hint of respiratory distress see a doctor. If I remember correctly that's what they are saying likely will happen here in Aus. You ring or skype your doctor who assesses if you need to come in. Most will not and do just what you say. But personally I have so many risk factors I would much prefer to be in hospital - I will list them - 65 this year, insulin dependent diabetes, an autoimmune disease Psoriatic Arthritis, and immune system heavily suppressed due to taking a Biologic. We must preserve some hospital beds for cases like mine. But I do have private health insurance which I would use even though I will likely be out of pocket a few thousand dollars.

The transmission of COVID-19 from asymptomatic individuals is generally thought to be negligible.

Likely true but we are not 100% sure:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/14/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread/index.html

For what its worth I think they are symptomatic, but just so mild they do not notice it. Just a hypothesis.

Thanks
Bill

 

[DennisN]

Currently I am in self isolation due to Coronavirus symptoms.

I didn't meet the criteria for testing because I didn't have trouble breathing and I had no contact with anyone known to be infected. My symptoms were mild diarrhea at first, a slowly building fever (over a few days), then a mild sore throat, high fever (for 2 days), body aches, and headache. After that, just a lingering off and on mild throat and lung feeling (as if I had breathed in dust, and on the verge of getting a sore throat). I didn't have a cough the whole time though.

I, like you, have had some of the symptoms, but not all.

As I've said before, we are in this together.

@Jarvis323: I had a similar condition except diarrhea, high fever and body aches. In addition, I had almost no cough, during this time I had coughed maybe 3 or 4 times only.

Currently I'm feeling quite fine. I have no other symptoms than a stuffed nose, so I have to blow the nose quite often. But I'm still staying at home, of course. My worry and anxiety in general has also dramatically reduced. Now I feel like Rambo staying at home.

 

[DennisN]

Yes - but watch it - it can develop into Pneumonia.

Yes. My mother got pneumonia a couple of years ago, and I helped her out. She said to me afterwards she had never felt so sick. And anyone reading this, pneumonia can be lethal too!

So:

At the slightest hint of respiratory distress see a doctor.

I definitely agree.

and immune system heavily suppressed due to taking a Biologic.

@bhobba , what do you mean by "taking a Biologic", I wonder?

 

[bhobba]

Imagine if there was a vaccine against the virus available, and those two hoarders went around buying up vaccine shots to be sold for a big profit

I am not sure how that would happen. Do you give yourself vaccine shots? Normally you visit the doctor and get the shot or you go to the Chemist where you buy the vaccine and they give you the shot. I suppose you could buy the vaccine and say I am going to the doctor to get it injected, but a government could easily legislate against that requiring you to get the pharmacist to inject it.

Thanks
Bill

 

[DennisN]

I am not sure how that would happen. Do you give yourself vaccine shots? Normally you visit the doctor and get the shot or you go to the Chemist where you buy the vaccine and they give you the shot. I suppose you could buy the vaccine and say I am going to the doctor to get it injected, but a government could easily legislate against that requiring you to get the pharmacist to inject it.

You are quite correct, of course.

I just did an analogy to demonstrate the questionable moral of hoarding in times like these.

 

[chirhone]

When you sneeze or cough. How long is the distance it can travel? We are trying to maintain one meter "social distancing" Is it enough?

Here some churches can't be closed during lockdown because of some members fears that they can be hit by lightning from above if they will not attend one.

 

[DennisN]

Here some churches can't be closed during lockdown because of some members fears that they can be hit by lightning from above if they will not attend one.

Science to the rescue: A Faraday cage for those members would prevent them from being hit by lighning.

 

[wukunlin]

When you sneeze or cough. How long is the distance it can travel? We are trying to maintain one meter "social distancing" Is it enough?

Here some churches can't be closed during lockdown because of some members fears that they can be hit by lightning from above if they will not attend one.

View attachment 258713

If you are going to a Church, wear a face mask.

 

[DennisN]

Here's another great video on how to manage your mental health during these times.
And in my opinion, it can be useful for anyone regardless of age or health to see this video:

Depression, Anxiety, and the Coronavirus (Douglas Bloch)
And he makes a very funny joke after 8 m 45 s.

 

[chirhone]

Why don't they call it COVID-20 instead? I saw in TV some are questioning the Lockdown arguing COVID-19 already expired because it's year 2020 already.