CPT asymmetry question, in regards to recent experiment@CERN

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of recent experiments at CERN, specifically the BASE experiment, which investigates the magnetic moment of antiprotons and protons. Participants explore concepts related to CPT symmetry, baryonic asymmetry, and the behavior of particles and antiparticles, raising questions about the implications of these findings for our understanding of the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that while antiparticles and particles behave differently, certain symmetries, such as CPT, require them to have the same magnetic moment.
  • There are several hypotheses regarding baryonic asymmetry, but the necessary symmetries to break for generating this asymmetry are C and CP, not CPT.
  • A participant emphasizes the importance of providing proper references to avoid misunderstandings in discussions.
  • One participant argues that the statement regarding the implications of magnetic moment tests on CPT symmetry is incorrect, clarifying that CP violation is necessary to explain baryon asymmetry.
  • Another participant suggests that discovering a new source of CP violation would require adjustments to existing theories, while finding CPT violation would necessitate a fundamental change in theoretical frameworks.
  • Clarifications are sought regarding whether the CERN test confirms no asymmetry in CPT and the status of tests for C and CP violations.
  • It is mentioned that C violation is significant in weak interactions, while P violation is maximal, leading to small observed CP violations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the BASE experiment findings, particularly regarding the relationship between CPT symmetry and baryonic asymmetry. There is no consensus on the interpretation of the results or the implications for particle physics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarity in referencing sources and the complexity of the relationships between different symmetries in particle physics. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainties in the field regarding the implications of experimental results.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and enthusiasts of particle physics, researchers exploring baryonic asymmetry, and those curious about the foundational symmetries in physics.

relatively-uncertain
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Hi, I'm a high-school student, so it would be nice if someone could answer this question without a huge amount of terminology. I heard that recently at CERN at the BASE experiment, the magnetic moment of an antiproton (to nine places is the exact same as the magnetic moment of a proton..) I was wondering if there are any hypotheses on why this is; do antiparticles and particles behave differently at all? Are there any theories as to why there is baryonic asymmetry? And I have endeavored to consult more recently published sources (have been fruitless), apart from a few contemporary articles here and there. In one of the articles, I’m slightly confused with “All of our observations find a complete symmetry between matter and antimatter, which is why the universe should not actually exist,” says Christian Smorra, a physicist at CERN’s Baryon–Antibaryon Symmetry Experiment (BASE) Does CPT asymmetry really have this implication to the formation of our universe? I'm slightly confused with the entire concept of Baryonic Asymmetry and the scientific implications this has. Thanks so much!
 
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relatively-uncertain said:
I was wondering if there are any hypotheses on why this is; do antiparticles and particles behave differently at all?
Yes, they do behave differently, but there needs to be certain symmetries for the theory to be internally consistent. One such symmetry is CPT, which is changing the charges of all particles, makes a spatial reflection, and reverses the direction of time. This symmetry requires that the proton and anti-proton have the same magnetic moment.

relatively-uncertain said:
Are there any theories as to why there is baryonic asymmetry?
Yes, there are several. However, the symmetries that you need to break in order to generate a baryon asymmetry is not CPT, but C and CP.

relatively-uncertain said:
In one of the articles
This is not a proper reference as it does not give the actual reference. Note that forum rules require you to provide the actual reference. If you do not we have no way of checking the actual statements and cannot judge what it is actually saying. Misunderstandings can arise from several sources, from the reference being bad to your interpretation of it being bad. We also cannot solve your problems by guessing what the reference states. Therefore, please provide the actual references instead of saying "I read somewhere that ..."
 
Thank you for your reply...sorry I didn't source it but here it is:
https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/universe-shouldn-t-exist-cern-physicists-conclude

Thanks so much again
 
Taken at face value, the statement is wrong. What the magnetic moment tests is CPT symmetry. What is necessary to create a matter-antimatter asymmetry (among other things) is breaking of C and CP violation. There is known CP violation in the quark sector through the phase in the CKM matrix. However, this is not large enough to explain the baryon asymmetry. The original article also clearly states that what they are testing is related to CPT.
 
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As simplified description: Finding an unexpected new source of CP violation would mean we habe to adjust or extend our formulas - that would be great. Finding CPT violation (what BASE is looking for) would mean the way we write down formulas itself needs to be changed - that would be amazing.
 
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Thanks again for your answer! So, just to clarify, baryonic asymmetry would require asymmetry in C and CP? The CERN test was the magnetic moment, and is only a test for CPT symmetry. So the only thing they have confirmed is that there is no asymmetry in CPT? Please tell me if I have made any misunderstandings.
Have there been any tests for C and CP violations yet? Thanks!
 
relatively-uncertain said:
Have there been any tests for C and CP violations yet? Thanks!
As I said, we have already discovered those, but not at the level that would explain the baryon asymmetry.
 
relatively-uncertain said:
So the only thing they have confirmed is that there is no asymmetry in CPT?
At least not one larger than the uncertainties of the measurement.

C violation is very large in the weak interaction, but P violation is very large ("maximal") as well, if you combine them you get CP where all violations seen so far are very small.
 

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