Creating a low pressure region inside a laser beam

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the feasibility of creating a low pressure region within a laser beam for the purpose of manipulating particles, specifically exploring the potential to replicate Bernoulli's principle using laser light instead of high-velocity air. Participants are examining the necessary laser power, the effects of heating on air density and pressure, and the implications for different types of particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to calculate the laser power required to achieve a low pressure region, expressing uncertainty about the approach to take.
  • Another participant questions whether the goal is to achieve low pressure or low density, suggesting that heating would lower density but not pressure.
  • A reference to laser cooling is provided, with a note that the observed effects may not align with established theories like Doppler cooling, raising questions about the reliability of the source material.
  • One participant proposes using laser light to create a pressure differential to confine small particulates, but acknowledges that the air within the beam would be hotter than outside.
  • Concerns are raised about the effectiveness of heating in this context, with a warning about the dangers of high-power lasers and the potential for eye damage.
  • A suggestion is made to consider generating a "hollow" beam using an axicon to create a Bessel beam, which may be more effective for manipulating particles.
  • Discussion includes the challenge of using wavelengths that would not heat the particles while still being effective in manipulating them.
  • A later reply indicates a shift in focus from ping pong balls to microscopic metal particles, with a need for the particles to melt, complicating the approach further.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility and methods of achieving a low pressure region within a laser beam. There is no consensus on the best approach, and multiple competing ideas are presented regarding the manipulation of particles.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in existing references and the need for further exploration of laser parameters, particle types, and the effects of heating. The discussion remains open-ended with unresolved questions about the interaction between laser light and particles.

taylaron
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Greeting PFers,
I need to use the low pressure region inherent within the cross section of a laser beam for a project. However, I don't know how to calculate the necessary laser power to generate a sufficiently low pressure.

The topic is briefly dicussed *here*, but I see no relevant equations.


I have no idea how to approach the problem of calculating the temperature of the air inside the beam. I would appreciate any help.

Thanks,
 
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Do you need a low pressure, or a low density? I don't see how heating would lower pressure - it will certainly lower the density, of course.
Do you have any air circulation?
 
The reference only says that it was "observed" - but there is an immense literature on laser cooling - even a Nobel prize! You can start here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/optmod/lascool.html

But what they observed may not have been Doppler cooling; it may have been strong absorption of laser light by the water vapor, causing it to heat up and rapidly move away. Why are you using such an old reference work?
 
I'm trying to determine wither or not it's possible to replicate Bernoulli's principle employed in the levitating ping-pong ball experiment using laser light instead of high velocity air. The air within the laser beam would be hotter than outside the beam, so small particulates should* stay confined to within the beam given sufficient pressure differential.
 
I think this would not work - the heating effects are very small and dissipate rapidly, plus you would also be heating your tiny ping pong balls. As you increase the power the laser beam becomes dangerous - class 4 - and even the scattered light could cause eye damage.

So you would have to make a video instead of a live demonstration.

The best option I can think of offhand is to generate a "hollow" beam: use an axicon to generate a Bessel beam ... thete is a lot of recent literature in this area.
 
There are wavelengths with significant absorption in air (or another gas), but the particle would have to be invisible for the laser beam at the same time (otherwise it gets heated up and the laser beam is disturbed or not present behind the particle). That looks like a weird combination.

The hollow beam looks more promising. That has been demonstrated, but only for microscopic particles.
 
instead of ping pong balls, i want to use microscopic metal particles (a stream of them). i considered using a hollow beam, but i need the particles to melt.
 

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