Cuurent statuses of theories of gravity

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    Gravity Theories
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the current status of Newton's theory of gravity in relation to Einstein's General Relativity (GR). Participants explore the applicability of Newtonian gravity in various contexts, including its use in spacecraft navigation, and the relationship between Euclidean space and the geometry of GR. The conversation touches on theoretical implications, limitations, and the nature of gravitational interactions across different scales.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that Newton's theory fails to predict certain phenomena, such as the orbit of Mercury and light bending around massive objects, while still being adequate for many practical applications like spacecraft navigation.
  • It is proposed that Newtonian gravity can be derived as a first-order approximation of General Relativity, making it useful for most orbital dynamics problems.
  • One participant argues that Newton's law of gravitation is a simplified form of Einstein's theory, sufficient for explaining gravitational interactions with high accuracy, but lacking in accounting for relativistic effects like frame dragging.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that Newtonian gravity is not a special case of GR but rather a good approximation in weak gravity scenarios, with detectable deviations in certain applications, such as GPS.
  • A participant expresses curiosity about the relationship between Euclidean space and GR, questioning whether Euclidean geometry can describe large areas of the universe and how Newton's laws might break down at larger scales.
  • There is a discussion about whether the geometry of GR is a depiction of real spacetime or merely a mathematical model representing a physical reality that is not fully understood.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the status of Newton's theory in relation to GR. While some acknowledge its utility as an approximation, others challenge the notion of it being a special case of GR. The relationship between Euclidean space and GR remains a topic of inquiry without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the implications of different geometries and the conditions under which Newton's laws may break down, particularly at larger scales. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

chaszz
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I know that Newton's theory of gravity fails to predict certain features of Mercury's orbit in comparison with GR, and also fails to predict the bending of spacetime around a star shown by the path of light. And perhaps one or two other failures which I forget. But I've read that Newton's laws are adequate for calculating pathways of spacecraft in the solar system, and are used by NASA and presumably other space agencies for their flights, because GR is so much more complicated to use. So, what is the current status of Newton's theory of gravity in physics? Is it considered a special case of Einstein's theory, or an entirely different theory? Is it considered valid in the realms it covers, or outdated and overturned? Does Einstein's theory *contain* Newton's? Is Euclidian flat space which I believe Newton uses, a special case of curved GR space, valid only for smaller realms like the solar system, or could Euclidian space be said to be able describe also a large large area of the universe, say several long walls of galaxies together? If a flight path to another star say, 400 million light years away were calculated with Newton's laws, would it be in error as compared with a calculation made with GR? As the laws of physics break down in a singularity, could Newton's laws be said to break down above a certain size of spatial area?
 
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Yes, you can derive Newtonian gravity as a first order approximation to General Relativity. That's pretty much what it is understood to be and why it is useful for most orbital dynamics problems.
 
Newton's law of gravitation is basically a simplified form of einstein's theory of general relativity. It does not account for frame dragging and all that fancy relativistic stuff but it is sufficient to explain gravitational interactions to a high degree of accuracy.
 
Newtonian gravity is not a special case of GR. In the case of weak gravity, it is a good approximation to GR. However, even in weak gravity we can detect deviations from Newton's theory, such as the clock corrections that GR predicts are needed for the global positioning system (GPS) to run correctly.
 
Thanks. What about the later part of my query? What is the relationship of Euclidian space to GR space? Am I describing that correctly, including the parts about small and large scales and Newton's laws breaking down at large scales?

I am very curious about the relationship between any kind of geometry of space, Euclidian or one of the more complex geometries, and real space, or real space-time. Is the geometry of GR considered to be

1. A depiction of a real spacetime, or
2. A model that merely mathematically represents a physical reality we do not really understand (in the way that we do not really understand wave-particle duality, but are forced to live with it)??
 

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