GR Unphysical Aspects: Time Protection Hypothesis & Riemannian Curvature

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter jk22
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Gr
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the implications of closed timelike curves (CTCs) in general relativity (GR) and the construction of Riemannian curvature. Participants explore the concept of time protection hypotheses and whether CTCs are considered unphysical within the physics community. The conversation also delves into the methods of defining curvature in GR, particularly in relation to closed curves and alternative paths.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that Newton deemed infinite speeds of gravitational force as unphysical, leading to Einstein's relativity, and questions if CTCs in GR are similarly ruled out by the time protection hypothesis.
  • Another participant asserts that defining the curvature tensor requires using various types of curves, including spacelike and mixed curves, which are independent of particle histories and do not necessarily relate to the existence of CTCs.
  • A participant clarifies that while closed curves are used in GR, they are not necessarily closed timelike curves and can include non-smooth segments.
  • One participant suggests that an alternative approach to defining Riemann curvature could involve parallel transporting a vector between two points along different paths rather than around a closed loop.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on whether CTCs are unphysical, indicating that there is no consensus on this matter. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of CTCs and the construction of curvature in GR.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of defining curvature in GR and the potential limitations of using closed loops, suggesting that further exploration of alternative methods may be necessary.

jk22
Messages
732
Reaction score
25
As history is Newton considered infinite speeds of his gravitational force as unphysical, out of which Einstein constructed relativity.

In special relativity moving faster than c induces an imaginary space-time and is hence ruled out.

My question is regardin towards GR, in which Gödel showed that in rotating universes solutions to GR closed time-like loops could exist.

Are those also ruled out by physics community due to the time protection hypothesis ?

I suppose yes. Then by looking at the construction of GR, is it that the construction of the Riemannian curvature transport is made out of parallel transporting a vector along a closed curve ?

This seems unphysical to build a theory out of closed loops in space-time.

So how could other calculations of the curvature be made on helix-like curves ? I'm looking for documents about this particular point.

Thanks.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
To define the curvature tensor completely, you must use curves that have nothing to do with histories of particles, e.g. spacelike curves, and curves that mix timelike and spacelike, including having sections with different time orientations. This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the manifold admits closed timelike curves.

As to whether CTCs are unphysical, that is ultimately a matter of opinion. I think they are, others will disagree.
 
jk22 said:
by looking at the construction of GR, is it that the construction of the Riemannian curvature transport is made out of parallel transporting a vector along a closed curve ?

A closed curve, but not a closed timelike curve. The closed curve will not be timelike everywhere. In fact it won't even have to be a smooth curve; the typical examples used in GR textbooks are closed loops composed of distinct segments, which are not smooth at the corners where different segments meet.
 
jk22 said:
Then by looking at the construction of GR, is it that the construction of the Riemannian curvature transport is made out of parallel transporting a vector along a closed curve ?

This seems unphysical to build a theory out of closed loops in space-time.

Another approach could probably be taken to define the Riemann curvature.
Rather than thinking about parallel-transport around a loop,
think about parallel-transporting from event A to event B along two different paths.

In classical mechanics, the analogue is
rather than computing the work done around a loop,
compute the work done from point A to point B along two different paths.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
7K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K