De Broglie wavelength and energy levels

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the de Broglie wavelength in the context of the planetary model of the atom, specifically addressing the relationship between kinetic energy and wavelength, as well as the construction of a discrete energy level model. The original poster raises questions about the implications of standing waves in circular orbits and their connection to discrete energy levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive a relationship between kinetic energy and wavelength, noting their findings and questioning the introduction of discrete values through electrostatic forces. They also express confusion about the concept of standing waves and their relevance to the problem.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring the necessity of standing waves in circular orbits and discussing the implications of wave interference. Some guidance has been offered regarding the conditions required for standing waves, but there is no explicit consensus on the reasoning behind their necessity in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of wave-particle duality and the assumptions underlying the planetary model of the atom. There is an acknowledgment of the need for continuous and single-valued solutions along the trajectory of the electron.

rohanlol7
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Homework Statement


In the earliest circular planetary model of the atom the electron and proton orbited a common centre. The electrostatic forces alone provided the force field. However an accelerating charged body will send out electromagnetic waves and the orbiting charges would consequently lose energy continuously. The model did not, as it stood, predict the existence of discrete energy levels that were known to be a consequence of the discrete system of spectral lines. In the wave particle model the de Broglie wavelength, L, is related to the momentum p ( p = mv) by p =h/L. Assume v < c the speed of light in free space.

i)Use this to find a relationship between the KE of a body and its wavelength. (ii) How, using the de Broglie result, can a discrete energy level model be constructed?
Why are neutrons used to investigate the nature of certain crystals ?

Homework Equations



Equations are given in the question
Ek=mv^2/2
Fc=mv^2/R

The Attempt at a Solution


The first part is fine, i got h^2/2mL^2
for the second part i thought about using electrostatic forces and relate that to Fc but i do not see how this would introduce only discrete values in the model.
I looked online a bit and I found something about standing waves and that it would imply 2*pi*r=nL but i don't understand where this comes from
 
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rohanlol7 said:
I looked online a bit and I found something about standing waves and that it would imply 2*pi*r=nL but i don't understand where this comes from
Remember that you are considering circular orbits. If that condition is not met, then you can't have a standing wave (you have the wave destructively interfering with itself).
 
DrClaude said:
Remember that you are considering circular orbits. If that condition is not met, then you can't have a standing wave (you have the wave destructively interfering with itself).
but why should i want standing waves in this situation?
 
rohanlol7 said:
but why should i want standing waves in this situation?
Because otherwise you get no solution! The wave will interfere with itself and, on average, you get zero everywhere.

Another way to see it is that the solution should be single valued and continuous at every point along the trajectory.
 
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