Deciding on Euthanasia for Maxwell: A Tough Choice

[lisab]

We're faced with a tough decision.

It's about Maxwell, the dog featured in https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1632392&postcount=30".

He has bladder cancer and we took him to the vet today for a check up. He recently started dripping urine and blood. The ultrasound shows that the tumor fills nearly his whole bladder. Just a few months ago, it was tiny, maybe 1/10th that size. The vet suggested we try an anti inflammatory, which might reduce the tumor a bit. I don't put much faith in that but it's worth a try.

He doesn't seem to be in any discomfort, though.

So now what? Well it seems that we will have to euthanize him. For PFers who have had to do this, how did you deal with it? Specifically, what criteria did you use for deciding when?

It feels wrong to make this decision based on what's convenient for me.

 

[Vanadium 50]

That's so sad, Lisa. It's never easy.

I would ask your vet's advice about how late you can go before he's in discomfort. Not letting it drag on until the bitter end is the last kindness you can provide Maxwell.

 

[magpies]

I would just let him go into the wild... but that's probably why I don't own pets.

 

[skippy1729]

Even though he shows no signs of discomfort, animals instinctively try to hide injury so as not to encourage predators. I believe that dogs live in the NOW with a very limited sense of past or future.

It is easier to give advice in these situations than to follow it. You took Maxwell from a bad situation to a good one and gave him many wonderful NOW's. He needs you to help him now.

Best wishes, Skippy


PS The only thing that ever helped me was to go and get a new puppy.

 

[pallidin]

That's a tough one. To most animal lovers their pets are part of the family.
We had to euthanize our dog(severe kidney failure)
In our case we waited and kept it alive until we could tell it was experiencing constant pain and couldn't get up.
Getting a new dog afterwards really helped.

 

[Evo]

We're faced with a tough decision.

It's about Maxwell, the dog featured in https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1632392&postcount=30".

He has bladder cancer and we took him to the vet today for a check up. He recently started dripping urine and blood. The ultrasound shows that the tumor fills nearly his whole bladder. Just a few months ago, it was tiny, maybe 1/10th that size. The vet suggested we try an anti inflammatory, which might reduce the tumor a bit. I don't put much faith in that but it's worth a try.

He doesn't seem to be in any discomfort, though.

So now what? Well it seems that we will have to euthanize him. For PFers who have had to do this, how did you deal with it? Specifically, what criteria did you use for deciding when?

It feels wrong to make this decision based on what's convenient for me.

I am so sad to hear that lisab. I don't know what to say.

 

[GeorginaS]

Oh heavens, Lisa, I'm sorry. I've had to make that decision a bunch of times during this lifetime, and it'll happen again, at least once, anyway. (I dread that day more than just about anything.) I recently went through this with my best friend whose dog had a cancerous tumour in her abdomen that had spread to her liver. The dog was really, really sick, and terminal. The question was how long, not if.

She lives out on the coast and she and her wife weren't handling things very well. I flew out and spent a few days with them to try and get them organised and feeling steady on their feet so they could feel capable about making decisions. This turns into a long, messy story.

Anyway, everyone says that animals "hide" pain, and I don't think that's quite accurate. And I had someone else say to me that animals have a higher pain threshold than we do, and I don't believe that either. What I've noticed with animals is that they have a different presentation of pain than we do. And we don't always recognise what that looks like.

From the speed of growth of the tumour, Lisa, it sounds like a fast moving cancer. There's only one outcome, here, so it's just a question of time. I'm not sure what you use as a personal criteria. I know that my best friend was anthropomorphising like mad and seemed to think that the dog was looking forward to certain events, or appreciating every day that she had, or regretting things she hadn't done. There was no amount of telling my friend that dogs aren't aware of their mortality that made any difference to her. That they don't have regrets. They don't anticipate upcoming events. They live in the moment and if they are well-loved in the moment, everything's perfect.

I had to face the very real possibility of this being a decision on my plate with my little cat just over a year ago. Her ultrasound results suggested that she might have small cell lymphoma in her intestines. I sat with that distinct possibility (I would have needed exploratory surgery to confirm it) for an entire evening while researching the disease. And while the whole idea had my stomach in knots and my heart breaking, I made the decision that, if it turned out that's what it was, then I'd arrange that day for the vet to come to my house. I'd call my ex and let him know what was going on and ask him to come, because she's his little girl too, and we'd say goodbye then. There'd be nothing to gain for her by prolonging things and waiting for the disease to progress. Things would not improve, only deteriorate.

That's just what I'd do. That's what I've done in the past when confronted with terminal illness in an animal I love and care for. I couldn't hold them to decline.

For my best friend's dog, we got her on pain maintenance therapy because my friend couldn't entirely wrap her mind around what was going on. And the dog rebounded and lived, seemingly well, for an extra few weeks. When the inevitable downhill slide returned, though, it was quick. But it was so difficult to determine the scale of pain the dog was in until we got her on some super strong pain meds. Then I was aghast at what bad shape that dog was in.

I know it's one of the roughest decisions ever, Lisa, and everyone has to make their own choice about what they're comfortable doing and when. Personally, when the die is cast, I don't see the percentage in waiting. That's me, though. And trust me when I tell you I don't take that decision lightly or make it easily. And I've held and petted and kept calm and quiet and helped the animals I've had to make the decision for feel secure until they took their last breath. And that's hard.

I'm really sorry, Lisa. You'll find a decision that works for your heart.

 

[MotoH]

We let our first dog linger for too long. In the end it hurts you and the dog. It is better to put them down early, than to put them down too late, and cause unnecessary suffering.

 

[lisab]

Thanks everyone. Yes, it's a bad situation, and there is no easy answer.

I was under the impression that if he was eating normally that he was not in much discomfort (his appetite is quite healthy!). The vet told me today that dogs will eat until they're at the very end...well isn't that just like a dog, haha!

 

[hypatia]

My deepest heart felt sympathy for the decision you must make. Maxwell is a beautiful animal, you will know in your heart, when it is time.

 

[Tsu]

We've have a LOT of pets that have lived long and very spoiled and happy lives with us. We would almost always be able to see it in their eyes when they were ready to 'go'. One or both of us would be there while they got their 'love shot'. We would hold and love them as they left us. Not every one can do this, but it was the only way for us.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm sorry to hear about Maxwell. Yes, when the quality of life takes a big dive, that's when Tsu and I decide it's time. You will know if you look into his eyes and he looks miserable.

It is tough because the vets will sometimes try to string things along. In the worst case that we've seen, they even offered false hope just to get more money. In one case, we did make an extended effort to save one cat that had gone into liver failure. There was a chance that he might bounce back with constant hydration [by injection] and whatnot. But in the end I wished we had let him go much sooner. My feeling was that it wasn't worth gaining the extra time at his expense.

It's one day at a time with Isaac now as well.

 

[Astronuc]

I'm so sorry to hear about Maxwell.

I've had to euthanize our pets, and perhaps we waited a bit too long. One cat, our calico Pumpkin, had a bladder tumor, and when she started to hemorrhage and getting a bit shocky, we took her to the vet. Her bladder was as hard as a nut according to the doc. Unfortuantely, a second cat was euthenized the following day. He had a tumor in his abdomen, and I guess the death of Pumpkin got to him. That was about a month before my brother died from leukemia.

Another cat went into kindney failure. She just came to me one morning and stopped moving. I had pretty much waited until the last minute, and she probably suffered because I couldn't be with her 24/7. She died in my arms.

We've euthenized a dog too.

We still take in pets - mostly strays - as they pass.

 

[Reshma]

We're faced with a tough decision.

It's about Maxwell, the dog featured in https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1632392&postcount=30".

He has bladder cancer and we took him to the vet today for a check up. He recently started dripping urine and blood. The ultrasound shows that the tumor fills nearly his whole bladder. Just a few months ago, it was tiny, maybe 1/10th that size. The vet suggested we try an anti inflammatory, which might reduce the tumor a bit. I don't put much faith in that but it's worth a try.

He doesn't seem to be in any discomfort, though.

So now what? Well it seems that we will have to euthanize him. For PFers who have had to do this, how did you deal with it? Specifically, what criteria did you use for deciding when?

It feels wrong to make this decision based on what's convenient for me.

Handsome dog! So sad

I am so sorry for Maxwell. I just hope the vet's medicines give him some relief.

 

[Andre]

I had to take that decision twice and it's probably the main reason why there are no more dogs here in the house, to avoid it for a next time.

Also, not sure if there is a best time for such a decision, especially when it is inevitable in the near future. What is the value of extended suffering but being alive still? And moreover, how important is that question? But then again who are we, thinking we know and can decide what is best for the dog.

Maybe the most important thing is the feeling afterwards to have done the right thing.

Wishing you all the wishdom and courage to do so, Lisa.

 

[Borg]

Don't know what to say other than to add my condolences as well. Best of luck.

 

[phyzmatix]

This may sound a bit strange, but I always try to think of what I would have preferred had I been in their shoes. I'd have myself put down if I lived in constant pain but that's the only time I'd really consider it...I don't think a bit of discomfort warrants euthanasia and I fully agree with you that your own convenience shouldn't feature in this decision.

 

[Chi Meson]

Just a year ago, we had our dog euthanized when it became clear that she couldn't stand without pain. She was 17. That was the third dog in my life that had to be put down. I love dogs (and cats too) so I say this with empathy: The poor thing has cancer, and it's not going to get any better. If the anti-inflammatory reduced the tumor "a bit," that puts off the decision by what, a month? It's very sad, but the hardest part is to broach the subject. No, that's not the hardest part, but still, you need to make that decision and call the vet. A good vet will take it from there.

The irony is, when we really love our pets and take extremely good care of them, we bring them to this point where they just don't die the "natural" way.

 

[rhody]

The irony is, when we really love our pets and take extremely good care of them, we bring them to this point where they just don't die the "natural" way.

Lisab,

Echoing Chi Meson's observations, our sister and brother in law's pekinese, Sunny, who lived to be almost 16, about two months ago was having trouble getting his old little body around, mind you for the last two year's of his life he first went blind then lost his hearing, but thankfully not his sense of smell. Taking him to the vet that one last time was a very hard thing to do. They were with him till the end.

That was a sad moment for all, yesterday we visited them and they acquired a 6 week pekinese puppy, Teddy, really cute, got him last week. The funny thing is his face reminds everyone of Sunny, so that is a form of comfort to all. We have Sunny's memories and reacalled some funny stories and that helped too.

Rhody...

 

[Dembadon]

...
He doesn't seem to be in any discomfort, though.

So now what? Well it seems that we will have to euthanize him. For PFers who have had to do this, how did you deal with it? Specifically, what criteria did you use for deciding when?

It feels wrong to make this decision based on what's convenient for me.

I'm so sorry, lisab.

We had to make a hard decision about our family dog when I was younger. We decided to relieve him of the pain in which he was living. It was very difficult, but we were glad that we'd made that decision after everyone's emotions had settled.

Edit: I've no doubt that you are an exceptional owner; your compassion and consideration for your family member is moving.

2nd Edit: I was too young to remember, or comprehend, the details of the decision making process. Our dog, Smokey (a black Weimaraner), had an eye disease that causes irritation and nerve damage. Although he did not constantly whimper, we were told that the symptoms of the disease were likely causing a significant amount of discomfort and irritation. My parents did not have enough money for surgery...

I wish I could be of more help.

 

[Borek]

 

[Kerrie]

We've have a LOT of pets that have lived long and very spoiled and happy lives with us. We would almost always be able to see it in their eyes when they were ready to 'go'. One or both of us would be there while they got their 'love shot'. We would hold and love them as they left us. Not every one can do this, but it was the only way for us.

Lisa, so very sorry to hear this about your pup. I have never gone through something like this because I am only raising my first dog who is not quite a year old. Tsu and Ivan have some really great advice about when it is time. Sending you and your pup love and compassion for this difficult time.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Horrible! I was tearing up reading this thread. I loathe the day I have to make such a decision.

 

[lisab]

Sigh. Almost a year later, and I was again faced with this.

Yesterday I learned Sweet Miss Phoebe, my kitty, was in the final stage of kidney failure. This morning my daughter and I did what had to be done, we had her euthanized. She was ready to go but still, it was sad.

I can assure you though, that cat had a wonderful life...very spoiled.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Sigh. Almost a year later, and I was again faced with this.

Yesterday I learned Sweet Miss Phoebe, my kitty, was in the final stage of kidney failure. This morning my daughter and I did what had to be done, we had her euthanized. She was ready to go but still, it was sad.

I am sorry to hear this, lisab. It is always a very sad day when the time comes. But you know it was best for her.

She was lucky to have you and no doubt had a life that was about as good as it gets for a cat.

 

[lisab]

I am sorry to hear this, lisab. It is always a very sad day when the time comes. But you know it was best for her.

She was lucky to have you and no doubt had a life that was about as good as it gets for a cat.

Thanks...and I know you and Tsu know how to spoil animals, too .

 

[rootX]

That's unfortunate to hear.

Are you getting a new pet?

 

[lisab]

That's unfortunate to hear.

Are you getting a new pet?

No, not right away. I'm living in an apartment, so any animal I have would have to be alone all day while I'm at work. A lot of animals would not adapt well to that. I know Phoebe didn't mind it, she had a very laid back temperament. Plus she was older and slept a lot.

 

[GeorginaS]

I'm so sorry for your loss, Lisa. That's a truly heartbreaking decision to make twice in one year.

There's no doubt in my mind that you and Sweet Miss Phoebe had a great life with each other.

 

[Proton Soup]

mine gets urinary stones sometimes. hopefully it won't ever lead to something like this.

yours does look pretty rurnt, too

 

[HeLiXe]

Sorry to hear about Maxwell Lisab :(

 

[Andre]

Maxwell was last year. Yesterday, Sweet Miss Phoebe had to be euthanized.

My sympathy Lisa.

 

[Borek]

I am so sorry Lisa

 

[Borg]

Sorry for your loss Lisa.

 

[lisab]

Thanks everyone.

I assumed that I'd be emotionally a wreck after she was gone but I'm doing better than I expected. It was really stressful trying to figure out how bad she was feeling, it's a difficult responsibility. But once she was gone it was a load off my mind knowing she wasn't suffering.

I do miss her though. It seems life is a series of new normals.

 

[rhody]

Lisa,

Some wonderful memories of Miss Phoebe you have I am sure, thanks for posting the pictures, you were right about what you said, you have to adapt and roll with the punches, and learn to embrace a new normal, with whatever it may bring. You will have better days, of that I am sure. Just want you to know I am thinking of you.

Rhody...

 

[DivisionByZro]

I can perhaps share my experience (With a cat though).

This particular cat (Now deceased) had very recurrent bladder problems (Stones). I would come back from school, and sometimes he;d be in agony, crying in pain. It took 6 surgeries for the problems to go away; and at the last surgery, he was in worst pain than he had ever been. The only reason I kept trying to hold on, and not euthanizing him, was because I couldn't imagine not having him around. In retrospect, I probably should have euthanized him in the first few times. He went through so much pain. I had to move out a year later, and couldn't take him with me. He died of loneliness because he had always spent all his days with me, even though he still had good company after he moved out.


Lesson for you: My advice is don't try to extend things unnecessarily. I did not find it to be the best way to go.

Of course, this is only anecdotal and a piece of advice. Take it as you wish.

Good luck!


-D

 

[Triple_D]

It was really stressful trying to figure out how bad she was feeling, it's a difficult responsibility. But once she was gone it was a load off my mind knowing she wasn't suffering.

As someone once said, the most unselfish thing you will ever do, is to help your pet through this difficult time in their life.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[FlexGunship]

I can assure you though, that cat had a wonderful life...very spoiled.

I can tell she was spoiled, she has at least one more piano than I do!

I'm sorry for your loss, Lisa. But there are far worse things than living a long, happy life around people who love you. If only every now-gone cat were so lucky as Miss Phoebe. My condolences.

 

[Evo]

Sigh. Almost a year later, and I was again faced with this.

Yesterday I learned Sweet Miss Phoebe, my kitty, was in the final stage of kidney failure. This morning my daughter and I did what had to be done, we had her euthanized. She was ready to go but still, it was sad.

I can assure you though, that cat had a wonderful life...very spoiled.

Oh no! I am so sorry Lisab. It's never easy, they become such a part of our lives.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

sorry lisab! looks like a smart cat though! napping, piano, pf :)

 

[hypatia]

What a beautiful kitty, in her black formal wear. {hugs}

 

[turbo]

Lisab, I have always been the one "delegated" to take our pets on their final trip to the vet. It has never been easy, though ferrets (our most common pets) are fairly short-lived. They were always such heart-stealers. Now, we have Duke, and I hope sincerely for our sake and his that he has a long healthy life. I would be lost without him.

We spoil the crap out of him and try to keep him well-trained, happy, and engaged, no matter if we are playing, walking, going for a ride, etc. He's a happy boy, so I guess things are working out for him. I hope I can hold up OK when it comes time to say goodbye. Wishing you well.

 

[HeLiXe]

Maxwell was last year. Yesterday, Sweet Miss Phoebe had to be euthanized.

this is so sad :(

 

[micromass]

I'm very sorry lisab! I'm always very sad to see such a lovely creatures go. Good that they lived a happy life though...

 

[physics girl phd]

Such a sweet kitty. I'll be giving my aging Cha-Cha extra pets thinking of Phoebe.

 

[Ms Music]

This thread actually made me cry. Two losses in one year! I feel very sorry for your loss(es). Tough calls to make, but the right decision.

My sympathies.

 

[JaredJames]

Honestly, I don't find the decision tough.

I ask myself "For whose benefit am I forcing the animal to suffer? My own inability to let them go?".

Yes, the loss is sad but when it comes to the decision itself I find it's best to remove emotion from the equation.

It's why my mother insists I take them to the vets, she can't stand it.

 

[drizzle]

Oh the piano kitty :(

God that reminded me... Sorry to hear that Lisa. Kittens always leave good memories.

 

[rootX]

No, not right away. I'm living in an apartment, so any animal I have would have to be alone all day while I'm at work. A lot of animals would not adapt well to that. I know Phoebe didn't mind it, she had a very laid back temperament. Plus she was older and slept a lot.

I hope your home doesn't look empty.