Deriving an identity using Einstein's summation notation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving an identity involving the curl of a vector expression using Einstein's summation notation. The original poster presents the expression $$\vec{\nabla} \times (\frac{\vec{m} \times \hat{r}}{r^2})$$ and seeks to show that it simplifies to $$3(\vec{m} \cdot \hat{r}) \hat{r} - \vec{m}$$ while employing the notation effectively.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the representation of the expression in coordinates and the application of the cross product in Einstein notation. Some suggest writing the expression fully in coordinates before applying the notation, while others express uncertainty about the notation itself.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of how to express the problem using Einstein summation notation. Some participants have offered insights into the dimensional analysis of the expressions, questioning the validity of the proposed identity based on dimensions. Multiple interpretations of the notation and its application are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity introduced by the scalar dependence on coordinates and the challenge of applying the cross product in Einstein notation. There is also mention of confusion regarding upper and lower index notation, particularly in Cartesian coordinates.

Arman777
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Homework Statement
Derive the Identitiy using Einstein Summation Notation
Relevant Equations
$$\vec{\nabla} \times (\frac{\vec{m} \times \hat{r}}{r^2}) = ?$$
I have an identity

$$\vec{\nabla} \times (\frac{\vec{m} \times \hat{r}}{r^2})$$

which should give us

$$3(\vec{m} \cdot \hat{r}) \hat{r} - \vec{m}$$

But I have to derive it using the Einstein summation notation.

How can I approach this problem to simplify things ?

Should I do something like ##\vec{k}=\vec{m} \times \hat{r}## ? and then

$$\vec{\nabla} \times (\frac{\vec{k}}{r^2}) = \frac{r^2 \nabla \times \vec{k} - \nabla(r^2) \times \vec{k}}{ r^4} $$ ? But it seems like things getting more complicated this way.
 
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You have three vectors and a scalar, which also depends on the same coordinates than one of the vectors. Einstein notation is an abbreviation for sums. The summands are written in coordinates. So write down your expression in coordinates and build the cross product.
 
fresh_42 said:
You have three vectors and a scalar, which also depends on the same coordinates than one of the vectors. Einstein notation is an abbreviation for sums. The summands are written in coordinates. So write down your expression in coordinates and build the cross product.

I guess its like this

$$(∂_w(m_i)r_j/r_l^2 + ∂_w(r_j)m_j/r_l^2 + ∂_w(1/r_l^2)m_ir_j) \epsilon_{ijk}\epsilon_{wkh}\hat{e}_h$$ what will happen to
 
Last edited:
I don't know how the cross product is written with Einstein. I would write the entire expression in all three coordinates and then repeat it in the shorter notation to see how it is used and what for. It's important in physics to become fit in it. I am not. That's why I would go the long path.

##r^2=r_1^2+r_2^2+r_3^2=r^ir_i## is a scalar, so you can pull it out of the second, inner cross product, but the outer one are differential operators which apply to ##r_i##.
 
fresh_42 said:
I don't know how the cross product is written with Einstein. I would write the entire expression in all three coordinates and then repeat it in the shorter notation to see how it is used and what for. It's important in physics to become fit in it. I am not. That's why I would go the long path.

##r^2=r_1^2+r_2^2+r_3^2=r^ir_i## is a scalar, so you can pull it out of the second, inner cross product, but the outer one are differential operators which apply to ##r_i##.

Hmm I see. I am sharing a pdf. I am using that kind of notations. I don't know upper index notation ..

I find something like $$(∂_w(m_i)r_j/r_l^2 + ∂_w(r_j)m_j/r_l^2 + ∂_w(1/r_l^2)m_ir_j) \epsilon_{ijk}\epsilon_{wkh}\hat{e}_h$$
 

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Arman777 said:
Hmm I see. I am sharing a pdf. I am using that kind of notations. I don't know upper index notation ..

I find something like $$(∂_w(m_i)r_j/r_l^2 + ∂_w(r_j)m_j/r_l^2 + ∂_w(1/r_l^2)m_ir_j) \epsilon_{ijk}\epsilon_{wkh}\hat{e}_h$$
In Cartesian coordinates, you can forget about the difference between upper and lower index, it is only in curvilinear coordinate systems (and on manifolds) that it makes a difference.

Note that ##\vec m## is a constant vector and that ##\partial x^i/\partial x^j = \delta_{ij}##. You can also apply the ##\epsilon##-##\delta## relation to your expression.

Arman777 said:
I have an identity

$$\vec{\nabla} \times (\frac{\vec{m} \times \hat{r}}{r^2})$$

which should give us

$$3(\vec{m} \cdot \hat{r}) \hat{r} - \vec{m}$$

Note that this cannot possibly be true just based on dimensional analysis. The derivative has dimensions 1/L and what you differentiate in the first expression has dimensions of ##[m]/\mathsf L^2##, making the full first expression have dimension ##[m]/\mathsf L^3##, whereas your second expression has dimension ##[m]##.
 

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