Deriving the heat equation in cylindrical coordinates

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the heat equation in cylindrical coordinates, specifically for a long circular cylinder where temperature varies with time and radial distance from the axis. The original poster seeks to derive the equation U_t=k(U_{rr}+2U_r/r) from the three-dimensional heat equation, emphasizing a transformation from Cartesian to cylindrical coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants suggest starting with the chain rule to express partial derivatives in terms of cylindrical coordinates. There is discussion about the independence of variables and the implications for the derivation process. Some participants express uncertainty about the validity of assumptions made during the transformation.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing hints and alternative methods for approaching the problem. There is a recognition of different mathematical techniques that could be employed, though no consensus has been reached on the best approach. The original poster indicates a need for further clarification and exploration of the hints provided.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the transformation and the potential for multiple interpretations of the problem setup. There is an acknowledgment of the need for careful consideration of the relationships between the variables involved in the cylindrical coordinate system.

nettle404
Messages
2
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



Consider heat flow in a long circular cylinder where the temperature depends only on t and on the distance r to the axis of the cylinder. Here r=\sqrt{x^2+y^2} is the cylindrical coordinate. From the three-dimensional heat equation derive the equation U_t=k(U_{rr}+2U_r/r).

Homework Equations



The standard heat equation is

c\rho\frac{\partial}{\partial t}U(x,y,z,t)=\kappa\nabla^2U(x,y,z,t)

The Attempt at a Solution



Attempted to work backwards from U_t=k(U_{rr}+U_r/r) with the chain rule, but that did not produce anything of value. I can also probably solve the problem by deriving the heat equation starting in cylindrical coordinates, but the question asks to specifically "transplant" cylindrical coordinates onto the Cartesian coordinate heat equation by some tricky variable substitution algebra I can't imagine performing. That is: Where should I start?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You could start with, e.g., ## \frac{\partial U}{\partial x} = \frac{\partial U}{\partial r}\frac{\partial r}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial U}{\partial \theta}\frac{\partial \theta}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial U}{\partial z}\frac{\partial z}{\partial x} ## (the last term vanishes, why?). Once you have ## \frac{\partial U}{\partial x} ## in terms of ## r, \theta,## and ##z##, you can get ## \frac{\partial^2 U}{\partial x^2} = \frac{\partial}{\partial r}\left( \frac{\partial U}{\partial x} \right) \frac{\partial r}{\partial x} + \frac{\partial}{\partial \theta}\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial x} \right)\frac{\partial \theta}{\partial x} ##. You can assemble ##\nabla^2## going on this way. There are faster methods, but this is the one that requires the least sophisticated mathematics (as far as I know).
 
Geofleur said:
You could start with, e.g., ## \frac{\partial U}{\partial x} = \frac{\partial U}{\partial r}\frac{\partial r}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial U}{\partial \theta}\frac{\partial \theta}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial U}{\partial z}\frac{\partial z}{\partial x} ## (the last term vanishes, why?). Once you have ## \frac{\partial U}{\partial x} ## in terms of ## r, \theta,## and ##z##, you can get ## \frac{\partial^2 U}{\partial x^2} = \frac{\partial}{\partial r}\left( \frac{\partial U}{\partial x} \right) \frac{\partial r}{\partial x} + \frac{\partial}{\partial \theta}\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial x} \right)\frac{\partial \theta}{\partial x} ##. You can assemble ##\nabla^2## going on this way. There are faster methods, but this is the one that requires the least sophisticated mathematics (as far as I know).

The last term vanishes because $z$ is unaffected by $x$? I'm not entirely convinced that's necessarily the case, but it's a bit late where I am and I need some sleep. I'll return to the problem tomorrow and try to solve it: I think your hint has more or less cleared the issue for me.

Out of curiosity, what are these faster methods you're speaking of?
 
Indeed, ## z ## and ## x ## are independent of one another. The other methods:

(1) The expressions for ##\nabla ##, ## \nabla^2 ##, ## \nabla \cdot ##, and ## \nabla \times ## can all be derived in curvilinear coordinates by using the divergence and Stokes' theorems. See, e.g., Fujita and Godoy, Mathematical Physics, pg. 73.

(2) Using tensor calculus and the covariant derivative, one can derive general expressions for these operators in terms of the metric tensor ##g##. ##\nabla^2##, for example, turns out to be:

## \nabla^2\Psi = \frac{1}{|g|^{1/2}}\frac{\partial}{\partial x^i}\left[ |g|^{1/2}g^{ik}\frac{\partial \Psi}{\partial x^k} \right] ##.

Above, when an index appears once raised and once lowered, it is to be summed over (known as the Einstein summation convention).
 

Similar threads

Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K